Most devices & gadgets are rechargeable nowadays. The only thing I have that still requires batteries is a headlamp but even those are available in rechargeable varieties. House smoke detectors need a battery too.
I sure hope not, the only devices more than a few years old that still function are those with replaceable batteries. Removable batteries make devices simpler, more robust, and longer-lasting. Rechargeable, replaceable, removable, standardized batteries are the sweet spot for sure.
Mimd blown:
If my PlayStation or Switch controller dies, it becomes a wired controller I’m now tethered to. If my Xbox controller dies, I swap a couple eneloop batteries in and it’s good for another month. Advantage: replaceable rechargeable batteries.
This. I don’t have to wait for something to charge. I just swap and go.
Obsolete would imply a better in every way alternative. Kinda think they fall into the technology category of timeless and always useful. It’s hard to think of a safer, cheaper, higher capacity, disposable and more utilitarian form factor. Kinda like asking “will shovels ever become obsolete?”
The main reason that they’re nearly impossible to obsolete is that AA, etc. are just shapes (and voltages).
- Zinc-Carbon AAs have become functionally impossible to find because alkaline cells are better in basically every way.
- Lithium disposables beat alkaline in longevity, but lose in cost and are only 1.2V.
- NiMH are also 1.2V, but are rechargeable; they last longer overall, but are much more expensive and have much worse self-drain while not in use
- Li-Ion cells are far too high-voltage for AAs, but they’re also so much higher-density that it’s sometimes worth putting a step-down circuit in the battery to get it to 1.5V. That removes most of the density advantage, but it’s the only way to use rechargeable batteries to power devices that can’t run at 1.2V.
Lithium disposables beat alkaline in longevity, but lose in cost and are only 1.2V.
They’re about 1.6V open-circuit, and maintain 1.5V under light load for a large portion of their discharge cycle. They maintain 1.5V much longer than alkaline.
They’re terribly expensive for regular use compared to pretty much any other option though.
Always the possibility we invent a way to make them smaller, more compact, or higher voltage
YSK: Nitecore makes USB-C rechargeable AA batteries that are 1.5 volts like a standard alkanine batteries and not 1.2 volts like your typical rechargeable Ni-Mh batteries.
And if those specific ones aren’t available where you live, there’s a very similar range from a brand called “Pale Blue”.
Theirs are available in AAA, AA, C, D, 9V, and CR123.
something something my cold dead body
Are you trying to charge a lithium primary? That seems… unwise.
I think so, but I think it’s a bad development. Rechargeable devices tend to be non-repairable and ultimately bad for the environment. A, AAA, etc are ultimately just standardized interfaces with standardized form factors and voltage, the actual batteries are available in both one-time-use and rechargeable variants. I think we should keep them around as they enable us to use our devices for a longer time without costly repairs or even disposal of the device itself. This does not apply to very complex and energy intensive devices like smart phones though, as they obviously require more sophisticated and space optimized batteries.
I’d much rather see modern rechargeable batteries (Li-ion, maybe Na-ion in the future) in standardized, field-replaceable form factors.
This is already common in flashlights. In my pocket today is a flashlight running on an AA-size 14500 Li-ion. There’s a magnetic pad to recharge the battery with a proprietary cable, but I can also unscrew the tailcap and replace it with a spare, as most people expect from a flashlight. I can use AA in a pinch with reduced performance, though I’ll note supporting both voltage ranges takes extra work on the manufacturer’s part.
Being complex and energy-intensive doesn’t preclude batteries being standardized or field-replaceable. The issue with smartphones is that they have a highly optimized form factor.
A good percentage of rechargeable cells are standardized too, they’re just not easily accessible. I don’t think it would take much to adjust the design of a thing to accept a replaceable battery in most simple items.
For example, I have a laser pointer that runs on rechargeable lithium batteries, you just unscrew it and put any standard 18650 cell in directly.
D and C are almost obsolete already.
AA and AAA I have bought things that require them this year so I doubt it will happen in our lifetime.
As for rechargeable it’s twice the effort to find the charger every two years instead of just using the one time batteries.
As for rechargeable it’s twice the effort to find the charger every two years instead of just using the one time batteries.
I’ve actually seen USB to USB-C rechargeable AA batteries for sale. I’ve never tried them so I have no idea personally how good they are but the reviews seem positive. I think that could be the way forward as long as it’s a standard charging cable for the batteries.
These are the way. They usually come with a cable that splits from one USB A to four or more USB C. So you have a spot to charge them normally, but you can also give them a quick charge when you’re out and about with any random cable you have if you can’t find the splitter. And they charge much quicker than using a battery charger.
They seemed 12 times more expensive than the one use batteries. So only makes sense for stuff you use often.
As for rechargeable it’s twice the effort to find the charger every two years instead of just using the one time batteries.
I recommend keeping some charged spares and the charger in the same place.
Yeah, OP surely has a place they keep batteries so they don’t make a trip to the store every time a remote dies.
Anyway, I’d recommend that charger be one that charges AA/AAA individually instead of requiring pairs. Mine is a Panasonic BQ-CC17 that came with a set of Eneloops.
That does raise another issue: some of the retail-grade chargers are pretty terrible and may have led some people to a bad impression of how rechargeable batteries perform.
A charger should charge cells individually, at a reasonably fast rate, and terminate correctly to prevent overcharging. Yours hits two points out of three: it’s individual and correct, but slow.
But if I only need one every other year I’ll have to charge the thing before I use it anyway. Besides should you not store rechargeable Li-batteries at 50-80%?
I had NiMH batteries in mind since we’re talking about types that come in alkaline, and low-self-discharge NiMH batteries (e.g. white Eneloops) are generally fine to fully charge before storage.
You might end up with a bit shorter runtimes storing charged batteries for years than charging them right before use, but it doesn’t matter much when your runtimes are measured in years.
There’s one potential snag with certain low-power devices though: a few only work in the 1.3-1.5V range. That’s terrible design since it doesn’t use most of the power in an alkaline, but some of those won’t work at all with NiMH.
I can’t wait to throw out all my flashlights because they don’t have USB-D and I don’t have the right cord to charge them anymore. This is almost certainly better for the shareholders.
I would really hope we will start replacing them with 18650s and the like soon. Rechargeable NiMh batteries just suck in comparison to Li-Ion batteries
And 18350s and 13400 (very common in “disposable” vapes), and a bunch of other sizes.
The issue with 18650 is honestly that it’s too big for most applications, especially when you look at what currently uses disposable batteries - remotes etc. - and their sizes.
Also, for li-ion, a cylinder isn’t an optimal shape, for a number of reasons, first being physics - the rolled up layers result in gaps that reduces the per volume capacity. The form factor also requires a very strong can, is prone to shorts, and doesn’t allow for easy addition of protective electronics.
For household purposes I think the best approach would’ve been utilising Nokia’s standardised battery formats (BL-5 family is still ubiquitous even though Nokia hasn’t made a phone that uses it in nearly 15 years), scaling them as necessary, while keeping a standardised pinout - with Li-Ion you kinda need more data than just the two poles can provide on a cylinder battery (temperature, internal resistance, etc.).
For people confused about the naming of Li-ion batteries: 18650 batteries are have 18mm diameter are 65mm long and cylinder shaped. 21700 have a 21mm diameter are 70mm long and cylinder shaped.
When I learned this they went from confusing to really intuitive.
I’ve only recently stumbled on 18650’s potential (lol) by using the 4Ah Kobalt 24v batteries for some experiments with solar, 12v loads, and inverters. Holee hell nuts. Theoretically around 44amp continuous draw in 4Ah arrangement (though I’m aiming to be well under 30 in most circumstances).
Also need to mod kids power wheels with these.
Wait until you hear about 21700s.
I was looking into them! Basically I’m just trying to utilize what I already have with my kobalt batteries for odd-end projects and camping, etc. The price-to-performance for the XTR line that has the 21700s just isn’t justifiable for my use-cases.
Non-rechargable batteries are the only possible solution for things that draw very, very little power.
Like watches and clocks, smoke detectors, etc.
Things where you replace the battery every 1-10 years. A rechargable battery wouldn’t really make much sense in that context, even if it was possible to make one that lasts that long.Hank Green recently did a good video on this!
Came to this thread for this comment
No. Primary cells are easy and cheap to manufacture, and hold much more charge than rechargeable equivalents.
And so much of everyday tech is already built around the form factor and voltage. You cannot change one without also changing the other. While I’m sure some battery sizes will go away with time, as some already have (Type B, anyone?), I’m willing to bet AA batteries will still be around in some form 100 years from now. Internals might change a little, and capacity might increase, but we’re still going to see 1.5V packed into those dimensions.
Primary cells are easy and cheap to manufacture, and hold much more charge than rechargeable equivalents.
This is half-true at best. Consider these tests of an alkaline primary, lithium primary, and NiMH rechargeable AA battery.
The alkaline has more energy than the NiMH at 0.1A load, but not above that. It will last longer in something like a TV remote or wall clock, but not in something like a flashlight with even moderate output or anything with a motor. Low-self-discharge NiMH, which has better shelf life beats alkaline once the load reaches 0.5A, which represents a device that will drain the battery in 4 hours of continuous use. Lithium primaries win the benchmark here until reaching a very heavy 3A load, but they cost as much as NiMH and only work once.
Allow a different voltage range in the same form factor and lithium-ion rechargeable 14500 cells now equal or slightly exceed the 5Wh capacity of lithium primary AA.
You can’t just mix and match battery chemistry and call one superior. If you could, they’d all be inferior to a nuclear reactor in the right packaging anyway. But since you absolutely have to be pedantic about it, I’ll make this revision specially for you with emphasis in the right place:
Primary cells hold much more charge than an equivalent rechargeable battery with the same battery chemistry.
And you can’t just allow for different voltage ranges without all the electronics also being adjusted for that.
You can’t just mix and match battery chemistry and call one superior.
Superior is a value judgment I wasn’t making there. You made a claim about cost and capacity between different chemistries (unless you meant something else by “rechargeable equivalents”), and I said it only holds up for cheap (alkaline) primaries under light loads.
you absolutely have to be pedantic about it
I’m trying to share additional information, not win an argument on a technical point.
And you can’t just allow for different voltage ranges without all the electronics also being adjusted for that.
That’s true. The broader topic of long-term obsolescence ought to include device design though. Someone designing a device today that could potentially use AA batteries should think about whether they’re obsolete for the use case.
