Judging people based on how they like their steak makes me think less of you
Tradition and authenticity is bullshit.
Food from good ingredients prepared well matters more than if the cheese was stared at for two hours by the sheepwife of the mayor of Scrumthrorpeshireffield.
For example: Wine tasters were clear that French wine just tasted better than Californian wine. They were extremely convinced. Then they tried a blind test and hoo boy did everyone get pissed when they couldn’t tell the French wine was better without knowing it was French first. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgment_of_Paris_(wine)
Tradition and authenticity are good and important if your goal is to experience the culture.
If your goal is to just eat good food, then they’re not important at all.
For example, if you go to Italy and want to really experience Italian food culture, then you should be looking for tradition and authenticity. But if you go to Italy and you just want some good, tasty food … then you don’t need to worry so much about that.
True. Culture, history, etc as an experience is valid.
It is where people pretend it is important to quality and taste, I call bullshit.
As for the experience… If the old bearded Italian man who served you traditional cheesemelt pig in wooden clogs while singing Por Trancone Parditto were to, say, replace the cheese with Swedish Gulost and not tell you… You would have the same experience.
Not saying it’d be the same, but that the food taste and quality are entirely separate from the authenticity.
Norrbagge detected, vi kallar det bara ost, inte gulost! c:
but then again culture is not comprised only of traditional ways of preparing food but also how it evolved to where we are
if your goal is to experience the culture
I think people also get touchy on what is “authentic”. Italian cuisine in Italy changed in a similar manner to Italian-American cuisine in the USA. So, you can have “authentic” Italian-American cuisine that comes from Italian roots, but Italians from Italy don’t want that cuisine to be seen as authentic.
Chicken Parmesan is what happens when you take Italian people and put them in America. You take Italians, with the cooking methods they know, their tastes, and set them down in 19th century New York, they make Chicken Parm. This is a well-tested hypothesis.
For example: Wine
I get what you’re saying, and it’s true, but “wine” is a horrible choice…
It can take five years for a vine to produce wine grapes. And even after they’re harvested, its a long process where lots can go wrong.
It wasn’t that people really thought no one could make better wine than France, it’s that no one else was consistently doing it yet. Everyone knew if Cali vineyards kept at it, they’d eventually level the playing field.
Most of the “outcry” about the result, was in France and made by the insanely wealthy people who owned the French vineyards
Not quite. French wine was diverse, with different regions producing the type of wine they did best.
California came along with marketing and convinced everyone wine should all be a heavy oaky drink that overpowers your food. They turned wine into McDonalds where it all tastes the same. Pretty sure Cali vineyards are owned by insanely wealthy people. Wine is just marketing now, people don’t want diversity, the want a big mac in every bottle.
You can pour cheap, bad wine into an expensive looking bottle and people will like it more. Marketing is pretty much all wine has going for it.
But it was a blind taste test by experts which showed that the best Californian wines could beat the best French ones, not marketing.
LOL…the opinions of ‘experts’ on wine has been debunked so many times.
Dude…those experts simply know how identify California wine and are paid to tell you it’s ‘better’.
The fact that people defer to experts to tell if they like a wine or not is very telling.
I could market Franzia to $200 a bottle with the right bottle shape and label, and of course natural corks, more bullshit.
Professional wine tasting seems like a scam anyway. Somehow, professional wine tasters are unable to tell red from white wine in blind tastings that hide the visual information.
When served correctly, you can easily tell them apart by temperature.
Thinking of for recipes, authenticity matters if you’re wanting that specific thing the way you’ve always (more or less) had it. Otherwise, go wild.
I’m always reminded of the time a chef my mother was dating tried to impress me by cooking pierogi (my favorite non-seafood food). He tried to make it fancy with toppings and it was so unsatisfying. Just give me my fried onions and sour cream.
I don’t entirely disagree. But the thing about tradition is, it’s done the same way every time. I’m more likely to trust the person who has done a thing their whole life and learned from their parents rather than someone who started last week.
But I’d prefer either of them over mass-produced versions.
I went to a blind dinner recently (You eat in a completely dark room, and are served by blind people).
After each course, the guests had to guess what they were eating, and what sort of wine was served.
Literally no one was even able to tell the difference between white wine and rosé.That tells me there was something wrong with the rosé, honestly.
For example: Wine tasters were clear that French wine just tasted better than Californian wine. They were extremely convinced. Then they tried a blind test and hoo boy did everyone get pissed when they couldn’t tell the French wine was better without knowing it was French first. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgment_of_Paris_(wine)
Two Buck Chuck (an inexpensive blend of wines sold by Trader Joe’s) also has scored well among California wines. So it’s not like expensive California wines are obliterating more-pedestrian counterparts, either.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Shaw_wine
Charles Shaw is an American brand of bargain-priced wine.[1] Largely made from California grapes, Charles Shaw wines include Cabernet Sauvignon, White Zinfandel, Merlot, Chardonnay, Sauvignon Blanc, Shiraz, Valdiguié in the style of Beaujolais nouveau, and limited quantities of Pinot Grigio.
The cost of the wine is about 30 to 40 percent of the price, with the bottle, cork and distribution the larger part.
Charles Shaw wines were introduced at Trader Joe’s grocery stores in California in 2002 at a price of USD$1.99 per bottle, earning the wines the nickname “Two Buck Chuck”, and eventually sold 800 million bottles between 2002 and 2013.[2]
At the 28th Annual International Eastern Wine Competition, Shaw’s 2002 Shiraz received the double gold medal, beating approximately 2,300 other wines in the competition.[13]
I’d add that the same sort of thing goes for “audiophile” gear. Things should be blind-tested. It’s very easy to have a perceptually different experience when you know what it is that you’re using.
I remember a point where Joshua Bell was busking in the New York subway.
https://www.classicfm.com/artists/joshua-bell/violin-busking-washington-subway/
He’s one of the finest talents in the classical music world, and in 2007 violinist Joshua Bell went busking as an experiment. Would the public realise just what was happening, alongside their daily bustle?
Music director of the Academy of St Martin in the Fields, worldwide star soloist, and former child prodigy. His instrument is a Stradivarius from 1713 and his hair is an icon of classical music in itself…
Joshua Bell is one of the world’s great virtuosos, and one of the biggest names in classical music.
And in 2007 he did some anonymous busking, as a little social experiment to see what might happen.
Over a period of 43 minutes, the violinist performed six classical pieces, two from Bach pieces, one Massenet, and one each from Schubert and Ponce.
Out of 1,097 people that passed by Bell, 27 gave money, and only seven actually stopped and listened for any length of time.
In total, Bell made $52.17 (£42.18). And this includes a $20 note from someone who recognised him.
I remember the violinist one when that came out, and watched some of the videos. He made terrible choices for songs to play that would be nonsensical unmelodious noise if listened to in a second or two of passing by. If someone on the street just hears a disconnected sequence of unrelated notes they’re not going to stop unless they are specifically looking out to be entertained. I’m sure he’s an incredible musician but musician and busker are different skills. A good busker can be a mediocre musician but play catchy, immediately compelling or memorable songs that are recognizable and instantly understood, and have a distinctive stage/street presence.
I was so frustrated by the implication that because he made a pittance that “people don’t know good quality” etc. No, he was just terrible at busking. Honestly he was lucky that he pulled even that much doing it for the first time. What do you honestly think is more attention getting, Violin Partita No. 2 in D Minor played by some white dude in a ball cap or a keytar wielding bear playing a cover of Watermelon Sugar with his whole heart and soul?
Traditional and culture are good if you like the food as it was originally. Here in the us, too much ethnic food is Americanized, sometimes for the worst. After experiencing a few more authentic Chinese restaurants, I’ve come to realize the many I don’t like are because they’ve been Americanized. Badly. A lot more sweet, milder flavors, everything fried.
Its more important to enjoy what you are eating than it is to follow someone else’s food “rules”. Put ketchup on hotdogs, pineapple on pizza, smear wasabi on sushi, coffee with pasta.
Ah I see you are enjoying yourself. Would you care to know that you are, in fact, enjoying yourself incorrectly?
There is no joy to be had the way you are doing it. If there is, it is a fault in your character.
The only time I think somebody can really enjoy something incorrectly is in karaoke (not bar karaoke, real karaoke where you get a room) because you can bring down the whole experience so easily. It’s a social activity, not a contest. And it’s a fun activity, not a wake.
I like ketchup and mustard on my dogs. I think pineapple on pizza is revolting, but I don’t pineapple-shame those who like it.
since when was ketchup on hotdogs considered unusual!? i thought that was normal my whole life!
not that it matters anyway :P
I think it is some regional pride thing in the states. Chicago people were ready to throw down on it.
It is standard.
Baseball.
I got a hotdog at a food truck that appeared near my house a few years ago. I asked for just ketchup on the dog. She laughed and said “You’re a little boy! That’s OK, little boys get hotdogs too.” I’m like, lady I am giving you money right now, is there a version of this encounter where you’re not judging me?
It’s 100% the norm to put ketchup on hot dogs. She can go fuck right off.
I thought she was judging him for not having mustard.
And rightfully so.
coffee with pasta, Do you just plonk it in with the sugar or do you dunk like a biscuit?
in parts of Italy it is highly discouraged to have a main dish with a coffee drink.
Nor do Europeans drink soda with a meal.
Ketchup and Mustard is hot dog glory. What ever the fuck I was served in Chicago had me searching for the meat
I feel obligated to plug the Seattle dog simply for being a different third option.
A Seattle dog is simply a hot dog on a roll that has been toasted inside and had a shmear of cream cheese. Standard is to come with fried onions, but it’s optional. Then you can add whatever you wants far as the usual hot dog toppings go. The hot dog or sausage is usually split open and grilled.
I like it with fried onions, sauerkraut, mustard, and a bit of ketchup. The ketchup balances out the saltiness of the rest. You could do relish. I also like it just plain with no extras.
Try it the recommended way for at least one or two bites and then judge how to improve it for yourself.
I love food bullies who get off on telling people how to eat and what they should like. The Chef was written for those people.
smear wasabi on sushi
There is nothing wrong with this. Sushi cehfs put it on the underside. If you want more, put it on top. It’s generally considered bad manners to mix soy sauce with wasabi and dunk but, to be honest, I see that fairly frequently here in Japan as well. Mixing soy sauce and wasabi to pour over chirashi is fine.
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Sandwiches for snakes
And it’s not pizza if it requires a fork.
What pizza-like dish are you eating that requires a fork?
Deep dish. And I’m not.
Damn man. I live in the Chicago area and I’ve never needed a fork for deep dish. Just pick it up like a normal slice and eat.
Deep dish is just round lasagna.
Steaks are diminishing returns for the price.
Most people can tell a $30 steak is better than a $6 one, but I think most people aren’t going to get much of a difference between a $30 and a >$100 steak.I agree… but I also think that applies to LOTS of other foods, particularly in the setting of a restaurant.
Not just foods, either. Tons of products are like that.
The gap between an El Cheapo lowest-bidder product and the midrange product will be far, far more significant than the gap between a midrange product and the high-end stuff.
Holds true for almost every product in almost every industry. Clothes, cars, sporting goods, electronics, you name it.
Unless you just absolutely cannot afford it, then the midrange product is usually the best choice. The high-end stuff will be slightly better, sure, but unless you’re an extreme enthusiast with very specific needs, the upgrade to high-end stuff just isn’t worth the price premium you’ll pay for it.
maybe I’m being pedantic or nitpicking but I think saying there’s a significant difference between a cheapo car and a midrange one is a bit off. a 90s Corolla will get you from point a to point b just as well as a ~10 year old one.
maybe the ride will be smoother on the newer car and if you can get some kind of warranty (are those going the way of the dodo bird? i would expect that to be the next step of the enshittification tbh) that’s worth something…
that said I will agree that the difference between cheapo and midrange is definitely bigger than the difference between midrange and luxury
the purpose of high end products is to broadcast you have money and therefore you are better than other people who don’t.
the point of luxury cars and such is so show that you can piss away $500 on a oil change, and are therefore ‘better’ than the peons who drive cars where the oil change is $50.
Often, sure, that’s the reason many people buy high-end products. And luxury cars are a prime example because nobody really needs a luxury car.
But instead, say, let’s look at mountain bikes. A midrange mountain bike will be much better than a Walmart special ‘mountain bike’. And a high-end mountain bike will be slightly better than the midrange one. And it’s true, a lot of the people buying high-end mountain bikes don’t really need that extra 10% of performance and maybe aren’t even really capable of using it. A lot of them are buying it just to flex on the poors, or because they have more money than they know what to do with and feel like they just have to have ‘the best’. But there are real enthusiast mountain bikers out there who actually do ‘need’ that extra 10% performance – expert riders taking on some of the worst terrain possible, people stretching the limits of what’s possible, and competitive athletes for whom a 10% performance difference means the difference between first place and last place.
Or, say, look at a tool like a power drill. A midrange drill will be significantly better than some Harbor Freight discount garbage. (Though, actually, HF’s midrange stuff is fairly decent.) And a high-end drill will be only slightly better than the midrange one. Here, there’s even less of a chance of people buying an expensive drill just as a flex. Because who cares what kind of drill you have? The only people buying it who don’t need it are those idiots with more money than sense who have to have the best of everything. But these high-end drills still get sold in fair numbers, because there are professionals out there using them every day. People who use the tool frequently for work can really benefit from one that’s just a little bit more reliable, a little bit faster and more powerful, etc. It allows them to get their work done a bit faster and more reliably, and for someone using it that much, the extra cost of a high-end tool can pay for itself over time by making them able to get more work done in less time and make more money.
At least some high-end products actually do have a purpose beyond just conspicuous consumption.
The majority of consumers for those products a middle aged dads. They simple have a lot of money to burn and it makes them feel good about themselves to blow $15,000 on a mountain bike they ride green trails on or $2000 on a drill they use to hang pictures. It’s pure vanity. But those folks are also living in 5000sq ft homes and driving 80K cars.
Working professionals aren’t consumers. They are producers. There are very few of them, compared to the 100,000s of vanity consumers who are buying luxury goods of which they will only ever use like 10% of the product.
Diminishing returns applies pretty universally, it’s just a matter of finding the point that’s good enough.
Babish figured out how to make a beef Wellington with a $10 cut that rivaled a $120 cut. A little science and time at sous vide.
Sadly, this doesn’t apply to a lot of seafood, however. Absolutely buy the most expensive scallops, for example, because they are handled, processed, and stored better, resulting in a very noticeable difference in quality; on the other hand, the difference between the cheapest and mid-range is less noticeable. Same with most sashimi. Oh, and even moreso with sake (obviously not seafood).
And that $30-100 steak is going to underperform against a mediocre home cook as long as the latter can take their time and prep the meat properly.
Unless someone I don’t like is buying me dinner, I’m skipping the steak every time. I do it better at home.
Brands names and generic coming from the same production lines are priced difference because of differing quality control standards. This may or may not still be the case, but it was when brand names were working on building the brand.
So a can of brand name green beans is more likely to have full beans with better texture and consistency. The lower quality beans, more fragmented and smaller pieces, and more variety in color are going to be in the generic labeled cans. Yes, same beans and same production line but the brand names get the better stuff in the same way as the people who pick through the fresh produce when it arrives at the store and the generic gets to use whatever is left over.
Generics are perfect in soups and casseroles and if you don’t care enough about presentation. Brands are for when you want rigid consistency.
Similarly: You may be able to make a dish at home, but the highest quality ingredients go to restaurants. This doesn’t usually matter much, but sometimes it makes a sizeable difference.
100% still a thing. My etire country’s butter is off the same group and packaged per everyone’s request. Prices vary wildly.
Car dependency is bad for food culture. It encourages massive chains and drive throughs and makes it harder for mom and pops to thrive
cold take my man
Good lol
Food culture sucks. Gourmets, foodies, Michelin star chasers etc, all suck.
All my favorite places were low-key mom and pop indie operations where the focus was on the food. Not the decor, the presentation, or the pretentiousness.
I also will never understand the total obsession people have with super expensive dinners. I hate them and they are a huge waste of money and the food is usually mediocre. Like expensive wine, it has nothing to do with the product’s quality or taste, and everything to do with just bragging about how rich you are by blowing boat loads of cash on an hour or two of pure vanity.
Food culture only exists because people aren’t hungry.
No chef or restaurant can beat the satisfaction of eating whatever you have when you’re truly hungry.
Personally I don’t care for “Mexican pizza”. I mean I like the flavors, but together I just don’t.
One day I started a job at a warehouse as a picker, walked like 15 miles that day pushing a cart around climbing up and down shelves, I was exhausted. Stopped by my GFs house, she asked if I was hungry, I was but all she had was a frozen Mexican pizza. It was at the time, the greatest food I have ever tasted.
True. If people were extremely hungry though, especially constantly, you get food religion
If we are talking about cuisine, then mine is that intensely spicy food (e.g. Indian, Korean, Laos, etc.) is heavily overrated.
I prefer a taste bouquet of a carefully crafted meal. Hotness should be a nice touch, not a dominant agony. Food should not require a built tolerance to it’s ingredients in order to be enjoyed.
I like a small proportion of what I eat to be very very spicy. Not everything, and not every day. But sometimes it’s exactly what I want and some foods are so good that way. Lots of other flavors are sort of learned too - wine, bitter greens, there are foods I tried every year until I could like them (mango and raw tomatoes, and wines, also Swiss cheese) and I am glad I did develop a palate for them. Spicy I’ve always liked, only one of my kids was like that but all of them like it now.
I guess my hot take is that just because I like milk and/or sugar in coffee, doesn’t mean I don’t like coffee. Most people who like chocolate don’t like unsweetened baking chocolate and nobody is gatekeeping that like they do with coffee.
Those foods are good, not just because they are spicy, but because of their flavor profiles.
- afternoon cappuccino is great (Italians disagree)
- sweet-and-savory is tasty af (pineapple pizza, cream cheese with chocolate/nougat, steak with ketchup)
- sweet alcoholic drinks are great, actually (but they should still have taste - use high quality ingredients and keep the ratios sensible!)
- 2 months-old dry vermouth (fridge-stored) tastes better than freshly unsealed dry vermouth
Well, now I want to do a dry vermouth comparison. Since we’re talking quality, I assume the two-month-open bottle has been stored in the fridge?
Yes, my vermouth is being stored in the fridge the entire time between unsealing and drinking.
Dry vermouth is a bit of a meme in cocktail enthusiast circles. The mainstream opinion is that it needs to be as fresh as possible to make a good cocktail, and it definitely loses a lot of flavor in the first weeks after unsealing. But to me, that full punch of wormwood herb is a bit much, I much prefer the more muted flavor of fridge-aged (oxidized) vermouth. I think part of that “as fresh as possible” stance is that people used to store unsealed vermouth outside of the fridge, often for years at a time because people were drinking their Martinis with only a few drops of vermouth. And even with freshly unsealed vermouth, most cocktail enthusiasts still tend to prefer low amounts of vermouth in their Martini, which to me suggests that they don’t actually like fresh vermouth that much.
Alternatively I could just try a few more different vermouth brands until I find one that I like from the start, but Dolin dry is delightfully cheap and Noilly Prat is the only dry vermouth that you can actually buy in physical stores where I live.
We’re finally starting to get there, but American food culture really needs to embrace communal eating more. Think tapas, hot pots, even simply ordering a few dishes to share with the whole table.
It’s more of a social and interactive activity, you get to try more things–it’s just a better experience. And you don’t get ostracized if you have some specific reason that you need your own separate food (medical, personal, whatever).
confused about that last sentence. in my experience, adding more people to the mix drastically increases the chances of ostracization
Well, then you know who not to have dinner with anymore.
Spicy food challenges are doing everything to ruin spicy food for everyone. They focus entirely on heat, not flavor.
If you want a spicy hot challenge and only care about the heat, there’s pepper spray.
But super spicy hot foods should be intentionally made to also taste great. The challenge he should be the allure of the spicy food conflicting with the pain it puts you in. If you’re gonna struggle with the heat, you should be equally tempted by the taste.
Da Bomb, for example, is a fucking abomination and shouldn’t ever have stayed in business, nor be promoted by Hot Ones.
For some of us who like spice, it can be tough to get that across. “No heat challenge, but spice it like it should be. Spice it as if I weren’t white”
Average American inland “seafood” is garbage. You have access to the Atlantic Ocean, Pacific Ocean, Florida Keys, Gulf of Mexico, Great Lakes, and hundreds of thousands of lakes and rivers, yet the top fish dish 100+ miles from a shore is usually catfish fresh out of a polluted sewage overflow ditch or farmed shrimp/crawfish fed on subsidized cornmeal.
I saw a great sign at a seafood market once that read “If it smells like fish, it’s not fresh fish”. I can personally guarantee you that you cannot find good quality, fresh seafood in the USA unless you live within travel distance of a shore where you can find a local market or restaurant that sells their catch of the day.
Catfish is not good quality fish. It’s a trash bottom feeder that does an excellent job of cleaning waterways. Stop eating it and claiming the flavor is unmatched, I can taste the Monsanto runoff.
I like. Steak. Well. Done. Because. That is how. I. Like. It.
it’s not because I can’t tell truly unsafe undercooked meat from rare
it’s not because I don’t like steak at all
it’s not because i fantasize about eating leather
IT’S HOW I PERSONALLY ENJOY THE TEXTURE AND FLAVOR OF A STEAK
now that’s out of the way I’ll be ordering the veggie burger because i have overwhelming ecological guilt lol
