I don’t see the issues here. Not every vegan is one for ethical reasons, and many of those who are vegan for ethical reasons only do it for themselves. The only vegans that I’ve seen that can’t comprehend the idea of respecting others exist exclusively online.
Vegan is an ethical stance. Every vegan is vegan for ethical reasons or they aren’t vegan. You’re thinking of a plant based diet.
I guess you could say he… butchered that date
It sounds like the steaks were too high.
I wonder whether they decided to meat again after
Perhaps if he Gutted his career, they’d have a chance
I wouldnt put much steak into that thought.
meat related pun
I bet their date was offal.
She did say a good vegan option so it doesn’t seem to be a non-negotiable
i worked in the meat department when i met my gf. shes vegetarian. i think she was more okay with it because her dog liked smelling my clothes after work😂
Jack Sprat could eat no fat.
His wife could eat no lean.
And so between them both, you see,
They licked the platter clean.
I’ve seen couples make it work. The guy gets to learn all about these really delicious vegan curries. The woman finds out how much meat gets thrown in the trash and maybe doesn’t feel so bad when her husband rescues a prime rib or a sea bass filet or a dozen scallops the size of your fist from getting chucked in the dumpster at the end of the shift.
Is that a Shel Silverstein poem? Give real Mr Speds and Mr Spats vibes.
A lot of vegans see animals as deserving of the same dignity as pets or humans. With this mindset the “thrown away” meat is about as much of a waste as burying your grandma instead of eating her.
This is a false equivalence. We regularly “throw away” remains (by burying or incinerating them) that could have been donated to science or organs that could have been donated to patients in need. Eating discarded meat seems more morally equivalent to ensuring that grandma is an organ donor. It’s not as if discarded meat in a landfill or buried Grandma’s in a cemetery are contributing in any meaningful way back to the ecosystem.
Not really it’d be like eating grandma when you can just go buy something else. Organ donation saves lives and is essential, eating flesh is not.
She was dry as a bone. Maybe a broth
Like the word fuck. Cool can mean many things and express a full range of emotions.
I dated a vegan for several years. Am a meat eater. There were no issues. The stuff she cooked was delicious, and the stuff I cooked she ate around if she had to. We respected our differences and it made us stronger
“she ate around it” . Sounds frustrating. You must be packing…
And before people downvote, I didn’t mean violence. Wrong packing. Turn off your tv. Take a deep breath and dip your head in the gutters a little bit
I didn’t assume violence, but I was thinking “there could be numerous other reasons besides a good dicking to stay with someone even if you don’t share ideologies”.
True. But that reason was humorous. Nothing wrong with a little funny haha.
You must be packing…
The terrible secret about cooking with meat is that the flavors of the meat get into everything else on the plate.
So you eat around the steak, but you still get the intense savory flavor in the carrots and the spinach and the rice and the beans.
And then the dog learns to do increasingly adorable tricks for leftovers.
One of the most delicious food I’ve ever eaten was this meat stew my grandfather made with oxtail and tongue.
The meat was some of the most horrible stuff I’ve ever put in my mouth, but the vegetables and the stock was absolutely heavenly.True. That’s actually one of my favorite add-ons about juicy steaks. It’s gets into my mash potatoes and is like a savory gravy.
lmao, never heard it in that context before
I’m inclined to be skeptical of there being no issues on her end. vegans have to tolerate a lot that we would prefer not to, but that doesn’t mean we like it.
Not all vegans are the same. I can only make choices for myself. My children have to come to their own conclusions as well.
It’s literally your job as a parent to make decisions for your kids until they’re able to.
I take issue with how you’re using “until they’re able to” here. No age was mentioned, it really sounds like you’re implying that they’re not able to make decisions until they agree with yours.
Also not being vegan is not a decision that is going to harm them long-term. Seems like a perfectly reasonable choice to let them make at any point in their life.
Well, vegans have 25% lower risk of CVD and 20% lower incidence of cancer so not being vegan would harm them long term. But not really about that, I take issue how you’re framing this as a personal choice. Think you’re forgetting about someone.
Contributing to animal suffering is a choice I hope they never make just like any other violent act. Just like they won’t be sat down at puberty and told they’re now old enough to decide if they want to rape or not, exploiting animals won’t be presented as a neutral choice either.
Turns out its pretty easy, kids think eating cute animals is gross.
I had a lot of issues with people because I refused to buy meat for my daughter. Why should I spend my money on something I believe is unethical to placate other people’s feelings about my daughter?
It sounds like a lot of people had issues with you for imposing your beliefs and limitations on a child who was too young to consent.
Malnutrition is a very real risk for someone who doesn’t consume meat. It’s very hard to eat enough protein, especially for a growing child. That makes malnutrition a very real risk- your child may not grow as strong or as tall or as healthy as they may have without your restrictions.
HAHAHA, jesus dude. No, all of that is wrong.
Malnutrition is not a risk, vegan’s have less deficiencies on average.
Vegans grow up stronger, taller, and healthier.
Carnists imposing their beliefs on kids and making them eat animals causes tangible negative health outcomes, accelerates the destruction of our planet, is and is ethically vile.
Malnutrition is not a risk
yes, it is
Source?
Ridiculously false. All dietary groups have risks of nutrient deficiencies that need to be taken into account. Every diet needs proper planning, or do you actually think the standard western dino nuggets, frozen fries, mac and cheese, and fast food burgers, that too many parents default to, doesn’t pose a nutrient deficiency risk? From the linked systematic review:
We conclude that there are dietary inadequacies in all dietary groups. In people following self-selected plant-based diets, especially vegan diets, intake, and status of certain nutrients is lower compared to meat-containing diets, with an increased risk of inadequacy for vitamin B12, vitamin D, EPA, DHA, calcium, iron (particularly in women), zinc and iodine. Of these nutrients, also meat-eaters were found to be at risk of inadequate vitamin D and calcium intake. On the other hand, people following plant-based diets, particularly vegan diets, had higher intakes of PUFA, ALA, fiber, folate, vitamin E and magnesium, which were found to be at risk of inadequacy among meat-eaters. Additionally, the intake of vitamin B1, B6 and C was considerably higher, especially in vegans.
Our results show the need for additional public health strategies to help consumers transitioning to a more nutritionally balanced and sustainable diet by education on diverse nutrient-dense plant foods, food fortification and possibly supplementation.
And here are a collection of statements from leading nutrition authorities from several countries. Just one for example:
It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes. Plant-based diets are more environmentally sustainable than diets rich in animal products because they use fewer natural resources and are associated with much less environmental damage.
Of any nutrient that vegans might be at risk of deficiency of, protein is virtually never one of them. It is entirely feasible, easy even, to get more than enough protein on a plant-based diet - even for people who do strength training. From Christopher Gardner, who specializes on the subject:
Does it matter if you get your protein by consuming plants or meat?
Gardner: In terms of meeting your protein requirement, it really doesn’t. Protein contains the same 20 amino acids, regardless of where it comes from. It isn’t the amount of protein consumed as much as the proportions of amino acids, which make up proteins, that matter most. Meat and animal products have amino acid proportions that align perfectly with human needs. Plants aren’t aligned as perfectly, but they’re really close - so much so that it doesn’t matter if there isn’t any meat in your diet. You can still get the needed proportions of amino acids from plants. A lot of people think that plants don’t have enough total protein to meet human requirements. But the truth is vegetarians and vegans usually meet and exceed their protein requirement as long as they’re eating a reasonable variety of foods.
Now let’s talk about this idea of “imposing beliefs on your child.” In the first place, what a ridiculous notion, every parent imposes their beliefs on their children. What’s relevant is whose beliefs are better, which ones cause less harm. You speak of informed consent; then given how often children react with shock and sadness when they find out meat comes from animals, doesn’t it make sense to at least wait until they’re old enough to comprehend where their food comes from, and everything that happens to animals before feeding them products that come from animals? Would you feel comfortable showing your child a documentary like Dominion?
And going back to the point about health, I already established that plant-based diets are entirely adequate for all stages of life, including pregnancy and childhood. What about the typical western diets? Heart disease can start as early as the womb, and often does start as early as childhood. Plant-based diets generally don’t have that problem.
As long as a parent is taking basic steps to enure adequate nutrition, vegan diets for kids are a great choice with lots of benefits. It’s the typical western diet that is abusive.
It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics…
this is no longer their position
Well, I mean, first of all it is my job as a parent to “impose my beliefs and limitations” onto my child. We pretend it’s not, but it is in everything I tell my children.
And then
Malnutrition is a very real risk for someone who doesn’t consume meat
No, it’s not. It can be for vegans. But just not eating meat (aka vegetarian) has no malnutrition risk.
No, it’s not. It can be for vegans. But just not eating meat (aka vegetarian) has no malnutrition risk.
No, it’s not. There is no malnutrition risk from avoiding meat.
That’s…that’s exactly what I wrote there?!
One might argue your job is to do what’s best for the child despite your beliefs.
And sure, the risks are lower for vegetarians but you’re still depriving a young child in your care of nutrition because of something you chose for yourself.
You seem to equate your diet with religion or some other deep rooted belief that you feel obligated to pass down. While the people who heard you were forcing this upon a child were thinking it’s more like choosing to smoke or drink heavily. Those two camps aren’t going to find common ground.
You seem to equate your diet with religion or some other deep rooted belief that you feel obligated to pass down.
If anything, passing down ethical beliefs about what is ok to consume and support with your money is more valid to pass down than 2000 year old fairy tales about who should be allowed to do what with their pee pee, not less.
One might argue your job is to do what’s best for the child despite your beliefs.
That’s what I meant with pretend. What’s best boils down to my beliefs, there is no objective criteria.
the risks are lower for vegetarians
No, there are simply no risks in not eating meat. There are risks in eating only potatos, but there’s just as much in eating only bacon. The potential risks in vegetarian and carnivore diet come from not enough diversity. But take a “normal Western” diverse diet, strip out the meat, and you’re perfectly fine in all macro- and micronutrients.
I’m not OP of this subthread btw. Nobody ever came at me for my children’s diet. Which they honestly should, as we eat way to much pasta, but that’s what’s always accepted 😅
Hmmm, no, it’s the same as eating meat. You pass it down to your children, yes? it’s the exact same, and it presents no health risks whatsoever. No animal products on the other hand (=veganism) has to be carefully controlled for protein and B12 intake. And then it also presents no risks. But it’s definitely more of a balance
IMO those people need to chill. I used to catch shit from my in laws for never feeding my kids meat, but they’re both healthy, strong and they surpass all of their growth and development milestones. Their pediatrician is more than happy with us excluding meat from their diet.
Can you fuck a kid up on a vegetarian or vegan diet? Of course if you don’t know what you’re doing and you feed them nothing but raw fruit or something. I’d argue it’s even easier to fuck them up on a standard American diet. Don’t take your kids to McDonald’s every other day and tell me I’m a shit parent for not feeding meat to mine. (Obviously this last point isn’t directed specifically at you, but at the attitude in general).
EDIT:
Oops. Responded to wrong person. Sorry.
I’m vegetarian. My partner is not. We mostly buy and eat vegetarian, but occasionally they’d like some real chicken or beef. I’ll even cook it for them, no problem. I just don’t eat it. It’s really easy to be in this type of relationship actually.
This anecdote is irrelevant to the topic because you’re talking about merely cooking with different dietary preferences. Veganism is about respecting the lives, dignity, and autonomy of all animals, and therefore seeking to minimize harm done through personal actions and economic consumption. The only relation between the two topics is superficial. Carnism is absolutely a strain on relationships for vegans, and many would not consider partnering with people who gleefully consume the corpses of its victims.
Of course, as vegetarians are carnists. Two carnists in a relationship is standard.
‘I still think animals are products so don’t mind when others also do’
I swear to god lemmy has the highest ratio of angsty purity testers I’ve ever seen.
I’ve never been any place online where people hate other people that match with them like 99% of the way so god damn much.
It is something to behold as a new user.
it’s common in all leftist spaces.
I wish I didn’t, but I have to agree. It seems like there’s a lot of moral purity -folks out there, who do these things performatively especially online to gain some social points or something, I can’t believe every single one is a troll. A good example are “vegans”, who claim they want to save as many animals as possible, yet instead of trying to get people even reduce their meat consumption, just call everyone murderers and don’t even try to reason with anyone, even fight with vegetarians sometimes. Or “anarchists” who claim they want to abolish the system, but don’t actually take any steps to do so, other than fight people who mostly agree with them but think you have to take part in the system to change it…
(And apostrophes doing some heavy lifting there; there’s plenty of vegans and anarchists and whatever, who are reasonable, sane and actually practice what they believe in. Just… seen too many people in leftist online spaces that are none of those)
Points are meaningless here mate what are you on about. These spaces are one of the few where you don’t need to worry about social points and can speak plainly. Which is why I can tell you that your defence reflex that urges you to attack the messenger instead of thinking about what was said has flipped.
And veggies are worse. Premeditated Carnism. Always butting in with their irrelevant opinions on animal rights.
folks out there, who do these things performatively especially online to gain some social points or something
I actually think that you thinking this is a problem, is a large part of the problem. People refuse to recognize that other people might just have higher or different standards than them, and think it must be in bad faith. This leads to people who generally agree being fizzled out by all the other people they feel are speaking in bad faith (and there are many that are trying to support non leftist opinions tbf), and leads to leftists ending up being unable to realize that they are allies even if they don’t perfectly align. TBF its kinda hard to see someone shitting on you (as they think you’re a baddie with the fizzled out feather light triggers), but we kinda have to try to figure out how to do that, because otherwise, being a shitty human being is just a winning formula when they have a much easier time forming alliances because they can base their entire identities around hating some people for no good reason.
For real, I think it’s due to the nature of this being an Indi alternative platform. It is filled with extremists and people who get kicked out of other places.
Remember, the first real big explosion in users came from when reddit restricted its API. So, by definition, a bunch of angsty users resistant to change and intolerant of opposing viewpoints.
During that original exodus, people remarked how friendly and tolerant and how people were willing to have constructive debate here. In reality, they were all united under their intolerance and hate for reddit.
Well, I am not fully in agreement there as I myself came here due to those restrictions but that is mostly because I primarily interact with reddit through boost and having it just suddenly get cut off was pretty shity. Not wanting to move platforms doesn’t really come with the same assessment of the person as you are saying. This is on top of API restrictions being something annoying to me as a scientists so I’m happy to not bother much with reddit anymore.
I think the issue is far more related to the other channels which pull in members. Lemmy users are probably more likely to be those who are either hobby enthusists in self hosting, people who are strong pro piracy supporters, people from political extremists groups (in particular leftists groups due to the history of the platform), or those from marginal communities. You also have the big group of people who were barred from other platforms, like the API restriction or the far worse group of people banned from reddit which people will post about proudly regardless of if that ban was reasonable or not.
I like Lemmy a lot, but it’s like any indi space, both filled with great unique things and things that make me want to travel the Australian outback without gas or water.
Reddit should be hated and not tolerated tho??
Thanks for proving my point.
Lemmy picks up the people who refuse to or can no longer use reddit.
I don’t hate anyone I’m just blunt and don’t care about social norms.
Given that we are a social species, that sounds like a terrible way to get literally anything you want accomplished by anyone else.
More than that, it absolutely sounds like you hate people given the vitriol you spat at that person who clearly agrees with you a majority of the way.
You also, even if you don’t care about social norms clearly understand the difference between not, for instance, participating in a silly tradition, and being unnecessarily and unhelpfully rude and aggressive.
The veggie? I view them further away from vegan ideologically than the average person. It’s not an ethical stance it’s an aversion to flesh and/or trying to shift responsibility away from themselves.
And it wasn’t vitriol I just said she views animals as products so no surprise she doesn’t see an issue?
The silly tradition I don’t participate is in speaking to people like they’re too dumb to hear the truth. That’s how I learned.
Brave soldier taking the downvotes. honestly lemmy has been disappointing and not much of an improvement on Reddit in mindset
You’re surprised that a website designed like reddit attracts the same type of people as reddit?
Well, at least downvotes don’t rate limit you here so they’re powerless to stop me)
Thats bullshit and you know it, go be a pissed off teenager somewhere else.
Bullshit how?
Vegetarians aren’t carnists. Being reductionist is an immature thing. We do that for children so they can grasp things before they are ready for the full details.
I’m sorry, what? Do vegetarians not see themselves as having dominion over animals to do with what they please?
Carnism is a concept used in discussions of humanity’s relation to other animals, defined as a prevailing ideology in which people support the use and consumption of animal products
No, they dont. Go learn more about how actual people live in the real world.
You don’t realize it, but this is actually a non sequitur. You’re right, I am a carnist! I don’t see a moral issue with a human (animal) eating an animal or animal based product. In fact, lots of animals eat animals!
You’re wrong, however, to say that I view animals as products. I do take issue with the industries relating to animal consumption. I take issue with the damage they do to the planet, I take issue with the way they treat the animals, and I take issue with the hygiene and working conditions for those involved. Ideally, I’d live in a world where it was possible to morally eat whatever you fancy. Unfortunately, I live in a world where you have to eat what you can afford.
Depends on the situation, if you’re a hunter gatherer and it’s your only source of sustinance sure, if you can get whatever you want from the supermarket choosing to still eat animals that’s needlessly cruel
Get whatever you want from the supermarket
God I wish I had that kind of money
legumes and plant stuff is generally cheaper than animal stuff, so it’s a good way to save too potentially
Literally the only animal products I consume are ones that are cheaper to buy than alternatives: dairy cheese and eggs.
I spend extra on alternative milks. Alternative eggs are more expensive or significantly more effort (yes tofu scramble is doable. No I don’t have the time). I could live without cheese, or on alternative cheeses. But, cheese actually makes up a pretty large sum of calorie intake because it is cheap and can be made to be relatively healthy in most dishes.
It all boils down to money. I already spend extra money on alternative meats, and milks and raw fruits and vegetables. I still have to have money for my other responsibilities, so I make some dietary sacrifices. But I’m sure that poverty isn’t a good enough reason to sacrifice my purity to most vegans.
No you were right in the first paragraph. I was right, it wasn’t a non sequitur.
Dairy cows and hens are still destined for the meat grinder, regardless of the vegetarian’s choices.
So you’re absolutely right. Sad to see the downvotes
May the downvoters be reborn as dairy cows.
nooo you can’t be plainly stating facts!!! I wanted to circlejerk about muh moral relativism!!
You would put animals on her plate and have her eat around it ?
By “eat around it” I mostly meant she let me cook what I wanted when it was my turn, and if I had time I’d make a second serving with meat substituted for something else (mushroom, artichoke, etc.). If I didn’t have time, I’d keep the base and the layering separate and offer her the base to flavour however she wanted.
When we visited my parents, she’d just pick out the meat chunks and actually eat around it no problem
NGL, if I was vegan and went to visit my inlaws and they made me pick out the meat chunks, that’s pretty shit hospitality.
Her parents cook twice when we visited them, but the extra work was shared between both her parents so it was fine.
My mother’s the only one that cooks. Her cuisine is very traditional. My ex understood this
You needn’t justify, people will get triggered at nothing. Your partner seems great, app the best.
catching strays out here, my dude. sounds like a really positive take on something people find divisive.
cooking for others is so special - I’m glad your family shares that. my parents don’t cook, and certainly never took an interest in meeting most of the people I dated. but now my partner and I cook for them. they don’t like everything we make, and pick around the stuff they don’t want. everyone’s happy, so it all works out.
Perhaps when a new person joins their life they could consider learning new things to go with the old. Thats just a hope at least.
well you do of course, but change shouldn’t come at the end of a gun - it’s a gradual thing
I often opt for bean and mushroom burgers now if I get takeout just because you get more bang for buck and they taste way better than the thin slither meat patties I was seeing
I literally said its a hope. Where did I say hold a gun to someone’s head?
On your other point, mexican food is super cheap when you stick with vegan/vegetarian as well.
it’s also important to be a good guest. a host isn’t a servant. they didn’t make anyone do anything; they offered food and shared their home, and that’s pretty cool.
also, doesn’t sound like in-laws. “dated” implies casuality, and also past tense.
No, fuck that. A host isn’t a servant, fine. But if they knew the person and still made only food, they had to pick shit out, they are just bad hosts.
I’m wondering if they even told them they were vegan. Its not hard to cook meat separately and let people mix it back into the veggies and whatever else.
You’re very much presenting a doomed if you do, doomed if you don’t scenario. As a picky eater (non vegan) I’ve found that if you’re unwilling to eat something a host made they get upset. They may never directly say it, but there’s always some negativity. Bringing your own food is considered disrespectful, for better or worse. The “rules” of politeness and manners in these types of situations sadly don’t follow much logic.
So, if a host knows there is a vegan and prepares a dish with meat in it, what can the vegan do? Separating it out doesn’t seem good, there’s still probably meat juices and things they don’t want mixed in. Bringing their own food will seem rude and disrespectful to many hosts. Refusing to eat will likely be viewed as them being overdramatic by the hosts.
So while it’s true that the host has no true obligation to prepare something separate, they’re still knowingly putting the vegan guest into a catch 22 scenario. The host isn’t under obligation to provide food at all but they are and they’re knowingly choosing something that a guest can’t pick due to dietary restrictions.
I’m basing this on the types of gatherings and families I grew up around in the American southeast. It’s not universal, of course. Even here it isn’t. But I also believe the types of hosts who would be tolerant of you not eating or bringing your own food are also the ones who would be polite enough to separate the meat before and cook them separately or they’d make something the vegan guest can eat just in general.
There’s no obligation other than being a decent person. Even my GB News loving in-laws prepare everything vegan when we’re over. They’ll usually have an extra pan of chicken/prawn/etc to add to theirs but the base of things is usually close to vegan anyway or can be made be so just laziness not to do so. If someone offered me their food with animal bits to pick out I’d tell them to ram it and phone a takeaway.
Nah, it’s not hard to make dishes modular. Not doing that is entirely disrespectful.
But if the hosts show no interest in making dishes vegan-possible, I usually bring my own food anyways.
If there’s no coordination up front, the burden of which must fall no the hosts, I don’t see any issue with the vegans in question taking care of themselves while the omnis take care of themselves. Visiting each other can be more than sharing the same or a similar meal.
It’s kind of the same thing when hosts ask guests to Bring Your Own Beer (BYOB). With that, the hosts make the request explicit. With vegan food, it’s more implicit unless the hosts tell the vegans to do so.
it’s not hard to make dishes modular
This is untrue. In many cooking styles using animal based stock as the entire foundation of the dish is completely normal. Subbing veggie stock isn’t always possible given the chef is going for a certain flavor profile. Veggie fond is not the same as animal fond, which also changes the flavor. Animal proteins denature differently, and some proteins are specifically used for their chemical and physical properties (think cream for a sauce, or eggs for a souffle).
While it is usually possible to sub vegan ingredients to approximate most of the effects of non-vegan ingredients, doing so entirely changes the flavor profile, presentation, and shopping list.
Can it be done? Absolutely. Is it as trivial as you make it out to be? Not even close.
I say this as a seasoned chef who has worked in commercial kitchens and cooks 3 meals a day at home from scratch. When I know I have guests coming over for a meal I attempt to accommodate for their dietary requirements (this doesn’t just apply to vegans), but it is rarely as easy as leaving one thing out. It usually means making two (or more) sets of completely separate mains and sides, which doubles the work and significantly increases the time spent.
It’s not hard to swap animal stock for vegetable stock.
The question is whether the flavor lost from the lack of animal stock can be gained in another way?
See this as more of an excuse than a reason.
I gotta say, she may have just been nice about it.
Had that relationship gone on a long time, this probably would have been an issue. She cooked delicious things for you, where you could relax and enjoy, but then she has to do additional work to be able to eat when you cook. Seems like you got the better end of that deal, and weren’t accounting for her needs.
While we both eat meat, my partner doesn’t prefer it, so we’ve switched to mostly vegetation, including my cooking. Sometimes i make meat dishes, but it’s mostly reserved for when we go out. I’ve learned to adapt because the last thing she needs is more work to do when it’s not her turn. This is how almost every veg-meat relationship that has lasted that I know of went.
Not saying this to be pointed, perhaps your situation really was unique, but I’d take some time for self reflection on what her perspective might have actually been.
Why are there so many people in this thread telling this guy what his vegan gf actually thought
Stop projecting. You don’t always need to be right. It’s ok for other people to have different experiences from you.
Because so many people live through it bothering them, and are nice about it, just like in the comment. Spreading awareness of that is why.
Sure, yeah, that’s all well and good, but like, the dude has said multiple times that things worked for him and his partner, and there’s still half a dozen people in the thread assuming the worst and telling him all the ways he should have lived his life. It feels like some sort of moral superiority contest, and it’s gross.
Yikes poor girl.
That way they get her leftovers. Modern solutions!
Probably not this route lol but I’m picturing a plate of roasted potatoes, a garden salad, a bean salad, surrounding a chicken leg that’s going untouched.
And at the end… the crisis was not dietary? Or did it contribute?
we had some issues, food was not in the least one of them
Onward!
But was preparing meat like…your profession?
Opposites attract and all.
If he butchers the rich, it’s a match made in heaven.
And now together: Change your diet for the climate, eat the rich 👏👏
I wonder if you can eat enough Elon to get a second-hand ketamine high.
Some might just need to be put in the hazardous materials bin.
Only one way to find out
I have wondered how long it would take the poor to eat the rich. Surely there arent that many
Luigi? 😍
I wonder if he’s passed through Blaviken at any point
True mhhm Mark Zuckerberg mhhm tasty 🤤🤤
butches
I don’t think you’re verbifying that correctly…
omitted an “r,” fixed.
I’m not vegan by any stretch, but I also like any restaurant with a strong vegan option. A mostly plant-based diet is better on my tummy. I’ll eat a steak, but then I’ll eat vegetarian for the next two weeks while I digest it.
Lots of reasons to end up at the same statement :)
Sounds like they’re set up for a long and happy marriage!
I’ve heard of atheists being married to deeply religious partners. Card carrying democrats being married to magats.
If you can accept each other despite a deep difference on something like that, you should have no problem getting everyday disagreements!
As an atheist vegan, those two things aren’t even remotely equivalent. “I go to church on Sunday” isn’t the same as “My job is hacking apart animals”.
Both the vegan and religious person are judging their partner for how they fundamentally live their life. And low key (if not full throated) simmer in the evilness of you not living right and want you converted to save you.
Religious people don’t “just go to church on Sunday” and are atheist the rest of the week. (Does not apply to closet atheists)
If you found out your partner was a rapist or murderer would you judge them and want them to stop ? What’s the difference here other than the victim?
I don’t understand your point. Is this because of the vegan point of view that that’s what happens to the livestock?
If you are really asking, I have answers.
But, if your questions are about animal consumption, I’m not in any way saying people shouldn’t be vegan.
I was taking issue that equating someone who goes to church once a week (and does nothing else) is NOT the same as a vegan who is vegan 24/7.
Someone was trying to say it was the same thing. Like vegans are only vegan when it’s convenient, or one meal a week only. So it would be super easy for a butcher and a vegan to be partners in that case. My argument is that while it could happen, someone is compromising a lot or not really walking the walk.
Religious people are to vegans What Non practicing people are to omnivores that eat vegan sometimes.
If you’re only doing it once a week, there’s not going to be much friction.
Saying otherwise about people who live their beliefs 24/7 is minimizing the strong beliefs of religious people and vegans.
My point was that religious people aren’t just perfomative one day a week. It’s going to bother the true believers to see their partners doing things that go against their beliefs.
Including a lot of vegans.
Some exceptions always, because humans are complicated.
What makes you think that you can make that blanket generalization about all religious people? Not only do different religions hold wildly varying points of view, but there are wide varieties of opinion within the same religion.
Do you honestly think that every member of every religion on the planet thinks that you’re evil and need to be saved?
You are correct, not all religious people, some are super tolerant.
My lived experience is that being an out atheist means the religious people that love you are worried your soul is going to the Bad Place (whatever that happens to be) and people who don’t care for you don’t trust you because an atheist doesn’t have fear of eternal punishment to stay in line.
But even the super tolerant seem to really want to convert you, because they don’t want you to suffer eternal punishment. Tell one you’d like to know more and see.
Evil was a bit much, but people who think you’ll suffer eternal damnation for not believing in the same thing (or an acceptable thing), the end result is that they think you’ll be in hell with the evil people after you die.
But I grew up in the Bible Belt of the USA. Maybe the religious people where you are don’t care about conversion and salvation.
People who are religious and “just go on Sunday” but don’t live their beliefs the other 6 days, aren’t religious. They are social, peer pressured, or whatever.
My point is that vegans live their beliefs and lifestyles 24/7. Religious people live it 24/7. If you are religious are you okay living with someone sinning 24/7 by being an atheist?
A person who only goes to church once a week and otherwise lives without a thought to their religion is like a vegan that eats meat voluntarily everyday except Sunday.
Why are you upset that I believe atheists are judged because of the lack of belief in a god? Being judged worthy is a huge part of religion.
Can you name some organized religions where no one is judged? Some that are completely tolerant of all others? (Lgbt+, women, competing religions, heretics, etc etc)
I’m asking earnestly. I’ve studied many religions when trying to figure out my place in the world. It’s about finding the one that most aligns with the kind of person you want to be. Or aligning with the one your community or family follows. Or giving up and just trying to do the best you can to be a good person.
Where to start? Not all religions try to convert you. For example, Judaism doesn’t. You can convert, if you’re willing to put in the work, but you have to be persistent since it’s discouraged.
Not all religions believe in Hell. Or have a concept like sin. There are even sects of Christianity that don’t believe in Hell!
I’ve studied many religions when trying to figure out my place in the world.
What did you think about Buddhism? Wicca? Neo-paganism?
I’m a Satanist. We don’t look down on you for being an atheist, because most of us are atheists, too. We don’t believe in Hell or Heaven. We won’t try to convert you because we respect your autonomy.
I’ve never had any other religion treat me the way you’ve described. Only Christians, and even then, only certain sects of Christians.
I recommend finding a Unitarian Universalist church and attending at least once. They accept anybody: atheist, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, whatever. I ultimately decided that it wasn’t for me, but it was an interesting experience.
UU was fine. I’m not looking for a congregation, so not my cup of tea.
I really liked Buddhism until it got into the mysticism and some of the suburban converts were super obnoxious. I also don’t believe in any mysticism, so Wicca and similar are out. I’d love to believe. I want to be able to do magic.
My best friend is Jewish (converted) and I appreciate the lack of judgement from her and her friends. But they still live varying lifestyles that seem important to them, but I don’t see how it gets me closer to god. Plus, it doesn’t seem appropriate for me.
Honestly, the Satanists resonate the most. But it’s also a religion to make sure religion stays separate from the American government. The point of it is that people who want to live a certain way can do it without a sanctioned religion breathing down their neck or burning them at the stake. You are right about Satanists/Atheists. The Satanists like you aren’t believers, you are just trying to be good people. But you are also going to get judged in the Bible Belt if you are public about it and told you are going to hell. Other than supporting the cause, I’m already doing my best to live by the tenets, since before I knew about them.
To be fair a butcher usually isn’t killing the animals. I’m not sure that you could say a butcher contributes much to animal suffering. You could argue its part of the meat industry so its all bad, but its not the butchers fault that people want to buy it.
I didn’t say that they contributed to animal suffering. I said that they hack apart animals.
From a vegan standpoint, I dont see how a dead animal can suffer more.
I never said anything about suffering.
Well this was an underwhelming conversation, if you could call it that. Have a nice day.
The cruelty and suffering decreases the flavor slightly & I would prefer hacked up animals that had a good life before intervention.
I think that the animals would prefer to not be dead.
animal behaviorists have tried to gauge whether animals understand that they ,themselves, might die. they call it understanding “personal mortality” and, as far as I’m aware, they have not been able to prove do understand personal mortality
I am an animal and I would prefer to be dead so idk about your point 100%.
I think you replied to the wrong comment
deleted by creator
