I’m vegetarian. My partner is not. We mostly buy and eat vegetarian, but occasionally they’d like some real chicken or beef. I’ll even cook it for them, no problem. I just don’t eat it. It’s really easy to be in this type of relationship actually.
This anecdote is irrelevant to the topic because you’re talking about merely cooking with different dietary preferences. Veganism is about respecting the lives, dignity, and autonomy of all animals, and therefore seeking to minimize harm done through personal actions and economic consumption. The only relation between the two topics is superficial. Carnism is absolutely a strain on relationships for vegans, and many would not consider partnering with people who gleefully consume the corpses of its victims.
I wish I didn’t, but I have to agree. It seems like there’s a lot of moral purity -folks out there, who do these things performatively especially online to gain some social points or something, I can’t believe every single one is a troll. A good example are “vegans”, who claim they want to save as many animals as possible, yet instead of trying to get people even reduce their meat consumption, just call everyone murderers and don’t even try to reason with anyone, even fight with vegetarians sometimes. Or “anarchists” who claim they want to abolish the system, but don’t actually take any steps to do so, other than fight people who mostly agree with them but think you have to take part in the system to change it…
(And apostrophes doing some heavy lifting there; there’s plenty of vegans and anarchists and whatever, who are reasonable, sane and actually practice what they believe in. Just… seen too many people in leftist online spaces that are none of those)
Points are meaningless here mate what are you on about. These spaces are one of the few where you don’t need to worry about social points and can speak plainly. Which is why I can tell you that your defence reflex that urges you to attack the messenger instead of thinking about what was said has flipped.
And veggies are worse. Premeditated Carnism. Always butting in with their irrelevant opinions on animal rights.
Does that last paragraph mean that you think it is better for vegans to fight with vegetarians, than to focus on what you agree with and oppose animal consumption together?
folks out there, who do these things performatively especially online to gain some social points or something
I actually think that you thinking this is a problem, is a large part of the problem. People refuse to recognize that other people might just have higher or different standards than them, and think it must be in bad faith. This leads to people who generally agree being fizzled out by all the other people they feel are speaking in bad faith (and there are many that are trying to support non leftist opinions tbf), and leads to leftists ending up being unable to realize that they are allies even if they don’t perfectly align. TBF its kinda hard to see someone shitting on you (as they think you’re a baddie with the fizzled out feather light triggers), but we kinda have to try to figure out how to do that, because otherwise, being a shitty human being is just a winning formula when they have a much easier time forming alliances because they can base their entire identities around hating some people for no good reason.
Oh yeah, general lack of genuine conversation is a huge problem, both in-group and out-group. If we all just discussed believing in good faith and without trying to just “win”, things would be a lot better. It is difficult now that there’s so much polarization going on, and a lot of real trolls spouting disinformation and trying to just get people angry… which sadly seems to be working a lot of the times. Personally I’ve lost my faith already and just tend to avoid taking part these days, which I do recognize is also one of the problems; since when people stop engaging because things are unpleasant, it leads to only the loudest and shittiest to stay to fight each other, which doesn’t exactly improve anything
For real, I think it’s due to the nature of this being an Indi alternative platform. It is filled with extremists and people who get kicked out of other places.
Remember, the first real big explosion in users came from when reddit restricted its API. So, by definition, a bunch of angsty users resistant to change and intolerant of opposing viewpoints.
During that original exodus, people remarked how friendly and tolerant and how people were willing to have constructive debate here. In reality, they were all united under their intolerance and hate for reddit.
Well, I am not fully in agreement there as I myself came here due to those restrictions but that is mostly because I primarily interact with reddit through boost and having it just suddenly get cut off was pretty shity. Not wanting to move platforms doesn’t really come with the same assessment of the person as you are saying. This is on top of API restrictions being something annoying to me as a scientists so I’m happy to not bother much with reddit anymore.
I think the issue is far more related to the other channels which pull in members. Lemmy users are probably more likely to be those who are either hobby enthusists in self hosting, people who are strong pro piracy supporters, people from political extremists groups (in particular leftists groups due to the history of the platform), or those from marginal communities. You also have the big group of people who were barred from other platforms, like the API restriction or the far worse group of people banned from reddit which people will post about proudly regardless of if that ban was reasonable or not.
I like Lemmy a lot, but it’s like any indi space, both filled with great unique things and things that make me want to travel the Australian outback without gas or water.
Your point is that people who left a platform because it made decisions they disagreed with don’t like it anymore? Shocking
Reddit is still the best place to go for a lot of niche communities you can’t really find anywhere else. That doesn’t change the fact that it has a lot of issues that stem from both the community culture there and the C-suite execs calling the shots, making it worse at every turn in pursuit of profit.
You’ll find I have similar opinions of most large social media companies. I just don’t talk about them as much because they were never appealing to me in the first place. Reddit had its problems dating wayy back but I enjoyed it for what it offered. You gotta draw the line somewhere, and I drew mine at the API shenanigans
Given that we are a social species, that sounds like a terrible way to get literally anything you want accomplished by anyone else.
More than that, it absolutely sounds like you hate people given the vitriol you spat at that person who clearly agrees with you a majority of the way.
You also, even if you don’t care about social norms clearly understand the difference between not, for instance, participating in a silly tradition, and being unnecessarily and unhelpfully rude and aggressive.
The veggie? I view them further away from vegan ideologically than the average person. It’s not an ethical stance it’s an aversion to flesh and/or trying to shift responsibility away from themselves.
And it wasn’t vitriol I just said she views animals as products so no surprise she doesn’t see an issue?
The silly tradition I don’t participate is in speaking to people like they’re too dumb to hear the truth. That’s how I learned.
Vegetarians aren’t carnists. Being reductionist is an immature thing. We do that for children so they can grasp things before they are ready for the full details.
I’m sorry, what? Do vegetarians not see themselves as having dominion over animals to do with what they please?
Carnism is a concept used in discussions of humanity’s relation to other animals, defined as a prevailing ideology in which people support the use and consumption of animal products
You don’t realize it, but this is actually a non sequitur. You’re right, I am a carnist! I don’t see a moral issue with a human (animal) eating an animal or animal based product. In fact, lots of animals eat animals!
You’re wrong, however, to say that I view animals as products. I do take issue with the industries relating to animal consumption. I take issue with the damage they do to the planet, I take issue with the way they treat the animals, and I take issue with the hygiene and working conditions for those involved. Ideally, I’d live in a world where it was possible to morally eat whatever you fancy. Unfortunately, I live in a world where you have to eat what you can afford.
Depends on the situation, if you’re a hunter gatherer and it’s your only source of sustinance sure, if you can get whatever you want from the supermarket choosing to still eat animals that’s needlessly cruel
Literally the only animal products I consume are ones that are cheaper to buy than alternatives: dairy cheese and eggs.
I spend extra on alternative milks. Alternative eggs are more expensive or significantly more effort (yes tofu scramble is doable. No I don’t have the time). I could live without cheese, or on alternative cheeses. But, cheese actually makes up a pretty large sum of calorie intake because it is cheap and can be made to be relatively healthy in most dishes.
It all boils down to money. I already spend extra money on alternative meats, and milks and raw fruits and vegetables. I still have to have money for my other responsibilities, so I make some dietary sacrifices. But I’m sure that poverty isn’t a good enough reason to sacrifice my purity to most vegans.
Ye, that does sound fair. Honest question; do you bake? In what way are eggs necessary? I’ve only been vegan for about two months, and haven’t missed eggs in any way; tofu scramble takes like 5 minutes, I just mix it in a pan, it’s good. I’m on a fairly low/ average budget and I manage to hit my calorie goals, macros and even gained a bit of weight (have had struggles with that my whole life)
Also where do you live? I’m lucky that milks are only slightly more expensive. I haven’t had any alternative meat, my proteins come from mostly legumes. And raw fruits and veggies are considered vegan food? I thought everyone was having those.
Also why care about “vegan purity checks”, you’re doing better than like 90% of people, the most important thing is to be happy with yourself.
I’m vegetarian. My partner is not. We mostly buy and eat vegetarian, but occasionally they’d like some real chicken or beef. I’ll even cook it for them, no problem. I just don’t eat it. It’s really easy to be in this type of relationship actually.
This anecdote is irrelevant to the topic because you’re talking about merely cooking with different dietary preferences. Veganism is about respecting the lives, dignity, and autonomy of all animals, and therefore seeking to minimize harm done through personal actions and economic consumption. The only relation between the two topics is superficial. Carnism is absolutely a strain on relationships for vegans, and many would not consider partnering with people who gleefully consume the corpses of its victims.
Of course, as vegetarians are carnists. Two carnists in a relationship is standard.
‘I still think animals are products so don’t mind when others also do’
I swear to god lemmy has the highest ratio of angsty purity testers I’ve ever seen.
I’ve never been any place online where people hate other people that match with them like 99% of the way so god damn much.
It is something to behold as a new user.
it’s common in all leftist spaces.
I wish I didn’t, but I have to agree. It seems like there’s a lot of moral purity -folks out there, who do these things performatively especially online to gain some social points or something, I can’t believe every single one is a troll. A good example are “vegans”, who claim they want to save as many animals as possible, yet instead of trying to get people even reduce their meat consumption, just call everyone murderers and don’t even try to reason with anyone, even fight with vegetarians sometimes. Or “anarchists” who claim they want to abolish the system, but don’t actually take any steps to do so, other than fight people who mostly agree with them but think you have to take part in the system to change it…
(And apostrophes doing some heavy lifting there; there’s plenty of vegans and anarchists and whatever, who are reasonable, sane and actually practice what they believe in. Just… seen too many people in leftist online spaces that are none of those)
Points are meaningless here mate what are you on about. These spaces are one of the few where you don’t need to worry about social points and can speak plainly. Which is why I can tell you that your defence reflex that urges you to attack the messenger instead of thinking about what was said has flipped.
And veggies are worse. Premeditated Carnism. Always butting in with their irrelevant opinions on animal rights.
Does that last paragraph mean that you think it is better for vegans to fight with vegetarians, than to focus on what you agree with and oppose animal consumption together?
Just the ones that jump into threads about vegans and perpetuate their pish.
I actually think that you thinking this is a problem, is a large part of the problem. People refuse to recognize that other people might just have higher or different standards than them, and think it must be in bad faith. This leads to people who generally agree being fizzled out by all the other people they feel are speaking in bad faith (and there are many that are trying to support non leftist opinions tbf), and leads to leftists ending up being unable to realize that they are allies even if they don’t perfectly align. TBF its kinda hard to see someone shitting on you (as they think you’re a baddie with the fizzled out feather light triggers), but we kinda have to try to figure out how to do that, because otherwise, being a shitty human being is just a winning formula when they have a much easier time forming alliances because they can base their entire identities around hating some people for no good reason.
Oh yeah, general lack of genuine conversation is a huge problem, both in-group and out-group. If we all just discussed believing in good faith and without trying to just “win”, things would be a lot better. It is difficult now that there’s so much polarization going on, and a lot of real trolls spouting disinformation and trying to just get people angry… which sadly seems to be working a lot of the times. Personally I’ve lost my faith already and just tend to avoid taking part these days, which I do recognize is also one of the problems; since when people stop engaging because things are unpleasant, it leads to only the loudest and shittiest to stay to fight each other, which doesn’t exactly improve anything
For real, I think it’s due to the nature of this being an Indi alternative platform. It is filled with extremists and people who get kicked out of other places.
Remember, the first real big explosion in users came from when reddit restricted its API. So, by definition, a bunch of angsty users resistant to change and intolerant of opposing viewpoints.
During that original exodus, people remarked how friendly and tolerant and how people were willing to have constructive debate here. In reality, they were all united under their intolerance and hate for reddit.
Well, I am not fully in agreement there as I myself came here due to those restrictions but that is mostly because I primarily interact with reddit through boost and having it just suddenly get cut off was pretty shity. Not wanting to move platforms doesn’t really come with the same assessment of the person as you are saying. This is on top of API restrictions being something annoying to me as a scientists so I’m happy to not bother much with reddit anymore.
I think the issue is far more related to the other channels which pull in members. Lemmy users are probably more likely to be those who are either hobby enthusists in self hosting, people who are strong pro piracy supporters, people from political extremists groups (in particular leftists groups due to the history of the platform), or those from marginal communities. You also have the big group of people who were barred from other platforms, like the API restriction or the far worse group of people banned from reddit which people will post about proudly regardless of if that ban was reasonable or not.
I like Lemmy a lot, but it’s like any indi space, both filled with great unique things and things that make me want to travel the Australian outback without gas or water.
Reddit should be hated and not tolerated tho??
Thanks for proving my point.
Your point is that people who left a platform because it made decisions they disagreed with don’t like it anymore? Shocking
Reddit is still the best place to go for a lot of niche communities you can’t really find anywhere else. That doesn’t change the fact that it has a lot of issues that stem from both the community culture there and the C-suite execs calling the shots, making it worse at every turn in pursuit of profit.
You’ll find I have similar opinions of most large social media companies. I just don’t talk about them as much because they were never appealing to me in the first place. Reddit had its problems dating wayy back but I enjoyed it for what it offered. You gotta draw the line somewhere, and I drew mine at the API shenanigans
Lemmy picks up the people who refuse to or can no longer use reddit.
I don’t hate anyone I’m just blunt and don’t care about social norms.
Given that we are a social species, that sounds like a terrible way to get literally anything you want accomplished by anyone else.
More than that, it absolutely sounds like you hate people given the vitriol you spat at that person who clearly agrees with you a majority of the way.
You also, even if you don’t care about social norms clearly understand the difference between not, for instance, participating in a silly tradition, and being unnecessarily and unhelpfully rude and aggressive.
The veggie? I view them further away from vegan ideologically than the average person. It’s not an ethical stance it’s an aversion to flesh and/or trying to shift responsibility away from themselves.
And it wasn’t vitriol I just said she views animals as products so no surprise she doesn’t see an issue?
The silly tradition I don’t participate is in speaking to people like they’re too dumb to hear the truth. That’s how I learned.
Thats bullshit and you know it, go be a pissed off teenager somewhere else.
Bullshit how?
Vegetarians aren’t carnists. Being reductionist is an immature thing. We do that for children so they can grasp things before they are ready for the full details.
I’m sorry, what? Do vegetarians not see themselves as having dominion over animals to do with what they please?
No, they dont. Go learn more about how actual people live in the real world.
Yes they do. Otherwise they’d realise it’s not theirs to take and not partake.
Just because some people dont live according to your definitions doesnt make them wrong, it makes them different. Different doesnt mean good or bad.
Brave soldier taking the downvotes. honestly lemmy has been disappointing and not much of an improvement on Reddit in mindset
You’re surprised that a website designed like reddit attracts the same type of people as reddit?
Well, at least downvotes don’t rate limit you here so they’re powerless to stop me)
You don’t realize it, but this is actually a non sequitur. You’re right, I am a carnist! I don’t see a moral issue with a human (animal) eating an animal or animal based product. In fact, lots of animals eat animals!
You’re wrong, however, to say that I view animals as products. I do take issue with the industries relating to animal consumption. I take issue with the damage they do to the planet, I take issue with the way they treat the animals, and I take issue with the hygiene and working conditions for those involved. Ideally, I’d live in a world where it was possible to morally eat whatever you fancy. Unfortunately, I live in a world where you have to eat what you can afford.
Depends on the situation, if you’re a hunter gatherer and it’s your only source of sustinance sure, if you can get whatever you want from the supermarket choosing to still eat animals that’s needlessly cruel
God I wish I had that kind of money
legumes and plant stuff is generally cheaper than animal stuff, so it’s a good way to save too potentially
Literally the only animal products I consume are ones that are cheaper to buy than alternatives: dairy cheese and eggs.
I spend extra on alternative milks. Alternative eggs are more expensive or significantly more effort (yes tofu scramble is doable. No I don’t have the time). I could live without cheese, or on alternative cheeses. But, cheese actually makes up a pretty large sum of calorie intake because it is cheap and can be made to be relatively healthy in most dishes.
It all boils down to money. I already spend extra money on alternative meats, and milks and raw fruits and vegetables. I still have to have money for my other responsibilities, so I make some dietary sacrifices. But I’m sure that poverty isn’t a good enough reason to sacrifice my purity to most vegans.
The time, for tofu scramble? It’s literally quicker cheaper and much healthier than doing it with eggs???
Same thing with egg salad, etc. few packs of silken tofu in a Tupperware with black salt, butter, etc.
any sources on eggs being unhealthy? I don’t eat them for ethical reasons but I thought they were full of good nutrients and minerals and such
Ye, that does sound fair. Honest question; do you bake? In what way are eggs necessary? I’ve only been vegan for about two months, and haven’t missed eggs in any way; tofu scramble takes like 5 minutes, I just mix it in a pan, it’s good. I’m on a fairly low/ average budget and I manage to hit my calorie goals, macros and even gained a bit of weight (have had struggles with that my whole life) Also where do you live? I’m lucky that milks are only slightly more expensive. I haven’t had any alternative meat, my proteins come from mostly legumes. And raw fruits and veggies are considered vegan food? I thought everyone was having those. Also why care about “vegan purity checks”, you’re doing better than like 90% of people, the most important thing is to be happy with yourself.
No you were right in the first paragraph. I was right, it wasn’t a non sequitur.
Dairy cows and hens are still destined for the meat grinder, regardless of the vegetarian’s choices.
So you’re absolutely right. Sad to see the downvotes
nooo you can’t be plainly stating facts!!! I wanted to circlejerk about muh moral relativism!!
May the downvoters be reborn as dairy cows.