So, I’ve been chatting with my buddies lately, and it’s turned into a bunch of debates about right and wrong. I think I have a pretty solid moral compass, I’m not bragging haha, but most people I know can’t really explain why something’s right or wrong without getting all circular or contradicting themselves.
So, how do you figure out what to do? No judgment, just curious. I’ll share my thoughts below.
Thanks!
Edit: Oh, all you lil’ philosophers have brought me a cornicopia of thoughts and ideas. I’m going to take my time responding, I’m like Treebeard, never wanna be hasty.
- don’t be an asshole
- everything is allowed as long as nobody is getting hurt
- act when you see something wrong
- when you are able to help do so
- in all other cases mind your own business
everything is allowed as long as nobody is getting hurt
Context is important here. Oftentimes someone is getting hurt, you just don’t know who or when. A very fine line on this bullet.
It’s worse than that. Situations where something causes no harm to literally anyone are few and far between. Even less often you have a full and clear picture of a situation. Usually it’s a choice between who gets hurt to what extent and based on what you know you just try to minimize the damage. You will get it wrong a lot.
Life is complicated and all we can do is to try our best and hope others will too.
Very well put
Pushing 4 decades, and the older I get the more I try to live by a philosophy of: be the person you wish you had when you were in their shoes.
Biggest thing is school right now: I did the college thing a bit a long time ago, struggled academically and financially, joined the military instead, separated, and now I’m back for round 2 using the GI Bill. I try to generate as many resources for my classmates as possible, run study groups, host group chats, send out reminders… The VA gives me a stipend for supplies each semester, which I’ll use in it’s entirety and give those supplies to the class. At clinicals (on-the-job education - nursing school) I’ve noticed a few students don’t eat cuz weren’t able to pack a lunch and hospital cafeteria food is WAY expensive for the average broke-ass college student, so I’ll cover the odd meal and tell em to just pay it forward once they get their RN. Shit like that. Kinda feels like I have 50 sons and daughters lol. But I remember my first attempt at college and how overwhelming everything felt… idk if having a ‘me’ would have made any difference in the outcome of round 1 - can’t make the horse drink and all - but if I can hook these kids up with an easier ride, then fuck yeah I’ll do what I can!
I try to apply that kind of approach to pretty much any context - be it school, work, or just random encounters with people.
Feels good to be helpful.
This fits very nicely in my belief system as well. For me the reason to life is to make it simpler/easier for the people who come after me. And thinking about what I needed and supplying that to others is a very nice way to achieve this. Although this could sometimes lead to doing something that is not needed (anymore), but even then showing others that helping others is a nice thing to do is worth a lot.
This is the best advice I’ve heard in a long while
A good starting place is considering what society would look like if everyone did whatever thing.
Everyone steals - doesn’t work
Everyone murders - dosen’t work
ect.
Another approach is the Terry Pratchett argument that everything boils down to just not treating people like things.
- etc.
So, like the Kantian categorical imperative?
My ethos boils down to…
- The Golden Rule: Your rights end where other’s rights begin, and vice versa.
- Natural Rights: Any action or inaction, thought, or word, spoken or written, that does not cross the line of the Golden Rule is a natural right.
- Ethics: All ethics are founded upon, and entirely dependent upon, points 1 & 2.
- Morality Is Unethical: Morality, allowing for arbitrary precepts, is inherently unethical.
- Effort: Strive to live ethically.
- Inaction is Action: Inaction is, itself, an action. If your inaction results (even indirectly) in someone’s natural rights being infringed, your inaction is unethical.
- Consideration: Actions often have cascading, indirect consequences, and you bear full responsibility for them. Therefore, failure to consider the indirect consequences of your (in)actions is also unethical.
- Graciousness: Treat others the way they wish to be treated. Recognize the dividends that gracious behavior has on preserving the natural rights of both yourself and others.
- Defend the Social Contract: Ethical behavior is a contract between individuals. Aggressors and instigators who violate that contract are not subject to its protections. As such, adherents are obliged to defend both themselves and others from such infringements to preserve the greater social stability.
- Imperfection: Acknowledge that no body, no thing, and no system is perfect. Not you, not others, not nature, not these precepts. Mistakes are inevitable, it is the effort and intention that matters. Accept and treasure imperfection, and be faithful to the spirit rather than the letter.
The Parable of the Teacup
"Nan-in, a Japanese master during the Meiji era (1868-1912), received a university professor who came to inquire about Zen.
Nan-in served tea. He poured his visitor’s cup full, and then kept on pouring.
The professor watched the overflow until he no longer could restrain himself. “It is overfull. No more will go in!”
“Like this cup,” Nan-in said, “you are full of your own opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup?”
The Parable of the Strawberry
"A man traveling across a field encountered a tiger. He fled, the tiger after him. Coming to a precipice, he caught hold of the root of a wild vine and swung himself down over the edge. The tiger sniffed at him from above. Trembling, the man looked down to where, far below, another tiger was waiting to eat him. Only the vine sustained him.
Two mice, one white and one black, little by little started to gnaw away the vine. The man saw a luscious strawberry near him. Grasping the vine with one hand, he plucked the strawberry with the other. How sweet it tasted!"
For the last year or so I’ve just been trying not to kill myself
Try to make life better for yourself and for everyone else. Try to have compassion for everyone. You don’t have to agree with them or support what they do, but treat them as having worth.
Never drink alcohol alone.
That doesn’t save me from bad environment, but it prevents a Huge otherwise potential risk
I recently have added a don’t eat/drink sugar alone for me 😊
Be kind.
Stoic and Buddhist philosophy. No religious metaphysical stuff like gods, spirits or reincarnation.
On a basic level be kind and accept impermanence.
Don’t be a dick.
Number one rule I have.
Beat me to it.
Don’t be a dick, don’t make anyone’s life worse out of indifference or even temporary malice, don’t make your own life harder because of the aforementioned, and the greatest accomplishment would be to make someone else’s life measurably, permanently better and have no need of credit or compensation for the act.
The problem with it is, everyone defines “dicky” behavior differently.
I try to live my life happily while causing the least negative impact for others.
This is one of the biggest problems going on right now. That people don’t have a knowledge of their own morality, not in any tangible, processed way. People resort to following a person who they believe has the morality they seek, but their own decisions are actually based on a combo of feelings and whatever dogma they may have with no real analysis or improvement being done with any consistency. It would fix a hell of a lot of problems if your average person was breaking down the implications of their own morality and developing a defensible philosophical position. For most I observe that is farther than the average person is willing to parse. It seems that this has led many to base essentially their entire philosophy of right vs wrong (as far as they can actually explain it without just saying “God”) on a series of impactful sounding, but ultimately hollow, sound bites or snappy retorts that don’t have any actual substance.
I wholeheartedly agree, and as funny as this sounds, I just started writing a manifesto about this yesterday lmao.
I think the main issue is the way morality is framed in neoliberalism, many religions etc.—as something prescriptive. We follow laws not because of some internal moral principles, because we conform to authority and fear punishment. This isn’t rational but deeply instinctual, and it leads to immoral action. Similarly, I think tribalism is a consequence of instinctual action and probably one of the main causes of evil in the world. Racism, nationalism, xenophobia, homophobia, etc. can all be explained in this framework. We need to educate people to recognize instinct and transcend it. A political system, however perfect, cannot be forced on people who aren’t ready for it.
Logic is the wrong tool for ethics. In formal logic, you can only assign values like true or false to something called “descriptive statements”. These are statements of fact, that can be observed.
Morality deals with “prescriptive” statements. Unobservable and unstable statements about how the world ought to be.
Logic breaks down because it’s impossible to argue for something that should be using only facts about how thing are.
The prescriptive statement “it’s wrong to harm” relies on the prescriptive statement “harm is bad”. Their is no bottom to it.
Well if we follow that to its conclusion I may as well delete the thread and try not to think about it.
Honesty, fairness, integrity.
I don’t lie - ever. Not even white lies. I might not always say what I think, but I never say something I know to be untrue.
I treat others the way I’d want to be treated myself. Even when it comes to decisions where no one else is directly involved, I ask myself: Would the world be better or worse if everyone acted like this? If the answer is worse, I don’t do it.
Don’t be a hypocrite. I won’t criticize others for something I’m guilty of myself - which is probably why you rarely hear me criticizing anyone at all.
Also, I don’t believe in free will - as in the ability to have done otherwise. That’s the other reason I don’t blame people for their actions. This is something that just overall plays a huge factor in how I approach life. There are many things I see completely differently than most other people - including myself.
A related quote: “It’s not a principle if it’s not costing you anything.”
don’t lie - ever
That can be dangerous advice in some contexts. Like if you’re an immigrant being confronted by an ICE agent, say whatever you need to say to get the fuck out of there.
Basically if a Nazi asks if you’re a Jew, the answer is ALWAYS ‘no’ regardless of whether or not that’s true.
I won’t criticize others for something I’m guilty of myself
Often it takes seeing other people engaging in a habit that you share to realize or accept it’s a bad one: criticism can still be warranted and constructive, but in that case I’d own the complicity openly and direct the criticism to ‘we’. Introspection is good!
That can be dangerous advice in some contexts.
There are exceptions. I don’t kill ever either, except when my life is in danger. If I can avoid physical violence by lying then it’s the lesser of two evils.
I’d say it’s also justified when refusing to answer would reveal the truth. If you’re asked about homosexuality in a country that prohobits it for example.
