The military has never been averse to orders to kill. I’m sure everyone on lemmy has heard the saying by now: You are not immune to propaganda. Now imagine that you’re serving in the military, where information flow can be much, much more limited in its flow, and know that the big ‘they’ is more than happy to manipulate their little peons into believing that the next target they select is an enemy of the state. If the police, literal people living in or at least near the community they are shooting, are willing to attack innocent folks, then the military, hyped up on fear, adrenaline, and lust for a target, will happily pull that trigger when they are told to do so.

Would they all do it? No, of course not. I’m hoping our nukes won’t fly towards democrat cities, and that some of a platoon wouldn’t roll over citizens in a tank, but the majority will. We’ve seen kent state, we know about My Lai, Abu Grahib, hell, fucking guantanamo bay…

The us military is not coming to save you.

Everyone commenting. I urge you to stop oversimplified responses such as ACAB and they are all trained murderers. Stop. You do no one any service with such vitriol. OPs post warrants a deeper dive.

The US military is broken. Has been for awhile. It does not train you to become a mindless killer. It trains you to be an efficient and effective killer, which is very different. However, it has very few effective safeguards to prevent efficient and effective from working alongside or enhancing the criminal power of rage and ignorance to create a real murderer. That’s the problem. There are no safeguards. No safeguards in a world where very young, very inexperienced kids are given a rifle and asked to be adults. Let me explain.

You’re taught how to kill or be killed, how to clear rooms, how to save your friends. You’re taught your specialty. How to shoot rockets, setup a radio, run a fueler. However. You are shown the Rules of War, Geneva convention, lawful orders, etc in a PowerPoint in the conference room at Battalion once a year. And everyone knows its a joke. No one teaches you those things, let alone how to understand and care about them. Indeed, you get nothing for caring. If you get to the military with a non-education, you’re doomed before the first bad slide hits the dim old screen. But that’s big world accountability. There’s granular issues that are way, way worse bits about what is prized and what is shunned.

If you don’t hit your targets at the range, fail to salute, miss PT you get in deep shit. If your NCO orders you to read the Bible or kick a kid in Iraq, well, you’re better off shutting up and obeying an unlawful order because you’ll face so many problems all at once. Not just being labeled a blue falcon for reporting someone (which won’t go anywhere) but likely jail, military court, and a ruined life because the system will let you down. Even if you win, your career is over. You will benthat guy forever. There is no accountability. There is no justice. For speaking up and doing what’s right.

So you see the problem. Compound that now with who is a soldier, who is an NCO, and yes, who might be an officer. Not your butter bars and E5s, but your E7s and majors and up. The ones that really can wreck your life. These are people generally from parts of the country already suffering from poverty, bad education, and a highly influential religious and racial ordering dating back at least to reconstruction. There is nothing in the military that can alleviate any of that. In fact, how the military is structured just enforces it and that’s another problem. We recruit, tolerate, and promote a system that makes accountability a weakness, intolerance reenforced, and morality wrong because in part its run by the people who don’t want Private Snuffy from West Virginia to change.

Private Snuffy is, as I said, likely from West Virginia. He’s not a bad guy, is 18, and has no prospects in his economically dead state. He has no idea his state was in the Union, his great grandpa fought in a full on labor union rebellion, or that people there once championed community and solidarity. He has, at best, a poor understanding of the world and even less agency than a cricket in a tarantula pen. He’s been told who to be and what to do forever. At best, he had both parents and no health issues unlike many in his community. Let’s go with that, but he is still in for a world of hurt.

The people above him could be good. A decent officer here, a good NCO there. But instead, he will be exposed to quite a few morally bankrupt officers and NCOs. These are the ones that will mold Private Snuffy into someone willing to shoot a citizen. Because they run his day to day life. They have control over him and if he is observant, he’ll see the good NCOs and the good officers leave or fight for spots where they can be left alone to do cool work like at a command school or some NATO attachment. The rest, well, they suggest private Snuffy turn a blind eye when one brings an underage girl to the barracks. They’ll help get their friends at that one church promoted and avoid staff duty. They’ll say certain people aren’t American and sing cadences about them. They’ll make or break his life and his future. And Private Snuffy has no future without them. They are Weinsteins. He has no chance. He can’t report them, no one will punish them, and they are the majority. The military does not do anything against these people. There is no system to keep them from making Private Snuffy an angry, intolerant, soldier willing to kill a neighbor. But let’s assume Snuffy isn’t going for that.

So you’ve got Private Snuffy, 25/30 on the range. 300 pt score (or whatever is max now). He’s commended for all that. Rewarded. He keeps his head down and doesn’t speak up at “the south will rise again” jokes. He sees this isn’t for him. He has four years and has to shut up or his life is fucked. He can’t speak up or he’ll loose out on E-4, or get stuck slopping gravy on trays at Thanksgiving again. He shuts up, makes E5, and doesn’t reup. He made E5 because he played the game. The terrible people don’t talk him into singing up for more, because he’s a liability, but not a blue falcon. So he is out.

But 29 other people in his platoon were cool with it all, or ignore it, and the problem persists.

Every military is a purpose built system to completely remove individual autonomy. The culture and training means you follow your orders without thinking. You are made to feel like a powerless cog in a machine. Anyone who is pinning their hopes on soldiers disobeying orders is ignoring the core purpose of the military. Even the most powerful generals have risen the ranks because they embody that mindset so well.

Agreed. Someone said that there is never an instance where law enforcement / military has stood up to their command or leaders and done the right thing.

I believe it. ACAB, and all military is too.

Some would. Some would not. Some would shoot the soldiers that did. If it ever comes to it its going to be fucked up any way you slice it.

The only people some in the military wouldn’t shoot on command is literally their own family, friends, and neighbors. Nothing else would really faze them and they’ll believe whatever bullshit about their fellow citizens being the enemy their COs tell them.

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