So, I work hard, my ass off, 5 days a week, 11 months a year, and I pay 1/3 or 1/4th of it so that pidophiles dont pay taxes.
Income tax, VAT, property selling tax are all theft. There is no logic behind it.
The taxes that should exist is: Wealth tax, nature tax for the businesses that damage nature, and that is it. And no tax should be over 5%.
Wealth tax: 0%, income tax: 30% this is unacceptable. You either pay no taxes or you pay everything as tax.
I actually calculated it, and yearly 2.5% of wealth tax should be enough. And also, countries have a lot of resources, that also can help their budget, like mines or rented lands that are owned by government etc.
If we taxed wealth, not work, we could buy our houses way easier, we could buy land way easier, we could find a job way easier because we are not gonna pay income and vat, businesses will be able to hire people freely, and everybody can own a business easily. Nowadays, if you are poor it is so hard to create a business. You have a lot of expenses.
In the current system, yeah. It’s just extortion of the poor.
Inherently, though, taxes are good. They just need to actually be collected fairly and proportionally, which, again, the current system does not do because it is corrupt.
Yeah, I hate the whole “taxation is theft” argument. Motherfucker, taxation is cooperation. I want our roads paved, our children educated, our people healthy, our science interesting and our infrastructure strong. I’m willing to chip in for that.
I do agree with OP though that the current system and government is fucked.
I think the better argument proceeds that taxes disincentivize the taxpayer from continuing the taxed behavior — for instance, raising taxes on cigarettes reduces the amount of smoking, or raising taxes on alcohol reduces alcohol consumption. As a society, we inherently want people to work and strive to have higher incomes, so an income tax is counterproductive.
But most other taxes we have are more regressive than an income tax so I’d be pretty skeptical of anyone claiming they have a new taxation policy that eliminates the income tax.
Actually no that is not healthy for any group of people, the goal should be raise all people’s resources, not just a few or some & not just money, & that is what income tax is supposed to do. If you are in a Political Left society, over a Capitalist or Feudalist (which we are now moving into) society.
I don’t think my view of economics distinguishes between increasing all people’s incomes and raising all people’s resources, excepting scenarios where we have all things in common (which I am broadly amenable to, but there are logistical problems that remain to be solved).
This for all repliers & OP who think taking away The Wealth Tax is good idea that benefits all people. If you are for taking away Wealth Taxing, which was created to even out resources available for each economic classes, than you for leaving money & resources in the hands of Rich-Super Rich Economic Classes/Owners. Which even at 90+% taxing (with no loopholes) of their wealths, they would still have enough to easy be rich. Plus the non-Rich-Super Rich Economic Classes/Owners would have programs that increase their money & resources removed & thus drastically continuing negatively affect their lives. I & the rest of the unemployed & poor people do not have enough income to be effected, thus no we will not taxed by 30% or any percentage. Yes, the employees, non-poor & non-Rich-Super Rich Economic Classes/Owners pay taxes, but they do not have enough wealths to pay wealth tax, too higher, but is because theRich-Super Rich Economic Classes/Owners pay so little in taxes. & you on top that want to take away wealths taxes that you qualify to pay.
Taxes are good, income tax isn’t
What is the difference between income tax and your “wealth” tax?
Is it not just the exact same thing, but applied at a different point in the process?
If you’re about to answer that wealth can increase in value without income… That’s still income. Which a lot of countries do tax when someone goes to liquidate an asset that has appreciated in value.
Like, 75% of billionaires get it by inheritance. Wealth can increase without income, Elon Musk doesnt have an income, it has wealth. A person with a land that 100x’ed in 10 years doesnt have an income, but his wealth increases.
Elon buys Twitter without liqudating his wealth. Similarly, every rich does it. The taxes are mostly paid by the workers, while the rich pays near 0 tax.
You get me?
When you tax wealth, not work, a person with 30K a year income, now has 40K, while the house he wants to buy was 200K, now 150K because people dont want to pay this tax, and they sell their 100 houses.That doesn’t answer my question.
A workers salary ≠ Income
It’s one form of it.
Stocks are income. Inheritance is income. Land appreciation is income. If you give me 50 bucks as a gift, that’s income.
How is your conceptual wealth tax, not just the same as what income tax should already be?
The problems you list are all loopholes in the applicable laws, not income tax as a concept.
You get me?
And would a “wealth” tax not have an inherent loophole in that the “rich” could avoid paying tax by simply spending faster than they earn, or even staying in debt, as many “milllionares” do?
And would it not punish poor people who try to save up, by taxing them more the more they save up?
Would it not make renting vs owning even more of a problem? Poor people would be encouraged to rent as much as possible in order to have as little “wealth” as possible? While the rich could continue to charge whatever they want to cover the costs.
They are already doing this. 'Spending faster than they earn" you are still thinking like income tax. They need to spend their wealth. Staying in debt, like they need to borrow money, what are they gonna do with the money? They still need to buy something which increases their wealth.
So, think about wealth, not income. If you think like this, we will never be able to tax the rich. If that’s what you want, Idk
They are already doing this. 'Spending faster than they earn"
Yea. I said that.
as many “milllionares” do
you are still thinking like income tax
What do you mean by income tax? Because clearly you aren’t understanding what I mean.
I mean ALL income. Of any kind. No loopholes. The problem isn’t conceptual. It’s practical. The law hasn’t kept up with the bookkeeping shenanigans the rich get up to. In fact, the rich actively influence current legislation to their benefit.
You’re arguing for a complete conceptual shift for no reason, when the actual problem is corruption.
What’s really needed, is just look at how the rich are avoiding taxation, and closing the legal loopholes they use. Which your “wealth tax” won’t do. Especially as “wealth” doesn’t actually have a value until it’s bought or sold.
Wealth has a value, land can be valued easily, we have data for years all around websites and in government about the lands everywhere. The houses are also like this. You can value a company by the factories it has people it employs etc, money it earns etc. This three is more than enough. The rest of wealth may not count, it is not important.
You cant fix loopholes without taxing all billionaires until none exists, because they will constantly bribe government. Even if you fixed loopholes, they will create intentionally.
If you want citizens to keep working their ass off, you minimize worker capital through taxes, fines, profit, or any other artificial expenses; so they’re stuck in a perpetual struggle for stability. And as a byproduct, the parasitic upper class can live royally, of the working class’ hard work.
I think you’re getting downvoted into oblivion because people are reading your headline and not your post?
There’s nothing to argue with in your message. I don’t know the particulars of your income/tax situation…but, yeah, if the people with all the money paid appropriate taxes…then many actual working people wouldn’t need to, and society would be more healthy. You’d still be paying a ton of excise taxes.
Broke: Taxation is theft, therefore it’s bad.
Woke: Taxation is not theft, so it’s okay.
Bespoke: Taxation is theft but stealing from the capitalists is good, therefore taxing the rich is good.
*
I know that taxing the rich isn’t anywhere near enough lol 🏴🏴🏴🏴🏴
Yes, That’s what I am talking about. Income tax, is taxation of the poor
This is right-wing bullshit to excuse billionnaires getting richer and richer. Proper income tax is progressive and spares the proletariat.
What you want is to maximalise the net disposable income, with universal, accessible, excellent, and free: education, health- and childcare for all throughout life, a rehabilitative judicial system, decent and affordable housing, and excellent public transit with preservation of nature.
For that, we must remove all billionnaires. Trade unions must cooperate with the armed labourers and disarm the elite.
Voodoo economics has never worked. So then we must tax land, inheritance, wealth, income, and dividend. And for all these, we must make it equal for all (in that there’s one comprehensive system for this)
• exemption for the most impoverished and marginalised
• a small contribution by the more prosperous
• multimillionnaires and billionnaires pay it all.and additionally, tax haven & capital flight must be punished and combatted. We must also combat the toxic idea of one’s worth being dependent on money: it must be on how much one helps society. we must control the narrative, and that must be positive for the liberation of all workers.
edit: oh, and it’s a minor thing, but you could also make the tax be one that’s pre-deducted, rather than that you have to pay. It’s a psychological thing where people rather fear losing what they have, than perceive the benefits gained by their contributions.
Only when what our Federal Gov. claims it will do, but never even achieved it, when you consider miss-spending of tax dollars, for Capitalist believes of moving all resources up to The Rich-Super Rich Economic Classes/Owners, while minorities in economics-resources (which includes almost all minorities of economics-races, worse in 1900-1960) decreases, especially with crises (created by The Capitalism favorite people/The Rich-Super Rich Economic Classes/Owners). That being said, without it & the small amount of tax payers (not including The Rich-Super Rich Economic Classes/Owners) going to everyone else, than it would a lot worse. Also the non-tax paying person/people only benefit from having more money/resources, anotherwards it is GREEDY to do. That is the reason I disagree with not paying taxes.
I am not telling you to stop paying taxes. Pay taxes over your wealth, not work.
Income Tax Is Theft
Realy?
Income tax is work tax. You are paying 30% of your labor every month. Don’t you get it? When you tax wealth and not work, a person with a billion dollars, gets taxed 20 million dollars a year, while a person with no wealth and gets 3K dollars a month, doesn’t pay taxes, because he is poor af.
Currently, Billion dollar guy pays nearly nothing even though this won’t effect his life much, while the worker pays 1K a month even though he needs it to live.I think my previous reply proves I understand what you were saying, if you read it.
Okay, let say, I believe you, then how what you posted stops work taxing? You cannot separate what one earns, from what one works, when comes to being taxed.
You cannot separate lower hrs. to a living hrs., required to get double pay/overtime or something like that to lower amount of work done or you cannot separate raise the federal minimum wage to a living wage. Or
You can drastically lower taxes non-The Rich-Super Rich Economic Classes/Owners pay & nothing for those poor Economic Class & Raise
&
You can drastically raise taxes The Rich-Super Rich Economic Classes/Owners to 90+%.I agree with doing all of it & a lot more.
I guess your utopia doesn’t come with stuff like free education and healthcare not to mention social safety nets.
Also, not a shower thought.
It comes with stuff like that, because since everybody will have similar wealth, what matters for the most people will be applied.
I’m in favor of a land value tax. See Georgism.
But most land owners already pay land taxes every year. And the amount of tax you pay depends upon the value of the land. 20 years ago I bought a little house way out in the fucking middle of nowhere, cuz that’s all I could afford. Now, the area around me has suddenly become a hotspot for development and I am paying 4x what I was originally paying.
The real problem, as others have stated, is the loopholes that give companies special rights and privileges.Yes, defitinitely. Land is the biggest wealth
