Surely, that was only the last nail on the coffin?
I think of the whole universe, the whole “creation”, as some kind of cosmic crime scene, and billions of Christians over the centuries have very thoroughly and desperately scanned it for evidence as to who did it.
That scene is the largest possible scene - there literally exists nothing else - and the number of investigators looking for clues is vast. Yet despite these odds, nobody has ever found any kind of undeniable evidence that God did it all.
I don’t need to read a book to understand that you can’t believe in a claim that contradicts that reality.
Vast? Not disagreeing by any means but you’re kidding yourself if you think humanity has “thoroughly and desperately scanned” even a fraction of a fraction of only THE MILKY WAY. We haven’t even set foot on another planet in OUR OWN SOLAR SYSTEM. Even if we were to assume all the species on earth were looking
We are SO helplessly ignorant when it comes to the rest of the universe. We’re still grasping at straws and don’t know how half the stuff works or even where any of it is really located.
Will we ever find God? I don’t know, but we’re sure as shit nowhere near understanding anything enough to say a god DIDN’T do it.
But it’s like dropping a plate from the top of the empire state building. You’re a block away and a little chip hits you. You don’t know where it came from or why. You don’t know the larger whole it used to make up. You and your family could spend generations examining that one little chip and learn EVERYTHING about it while still knowing nothing about it’s origin or original shape.
Either way, we’ve got a lot to learn, which excites me
Will we ever find God? I don’t know, but we’re sure as shit nowhere near understanding anything enough to say a god DIDN’T do it.
By that logic, we can also not be sure that it wasn’t Ralph the Wonderllama who lives on Proxima Centauri and sings songs by Simply Red all day.
Also, you completely missed my point - which was that billions of people have been trying to come up with evidence for many centuries, and of course, they can only look at a tiny fraction of the universe, but that doesn’t matter. If you haven’t found even a trace of shit, you can’t possibly make a claim saying otherwise.
Well, you can, but in that case it’s such huge and extraordinary claim that frankly, noone in their right mind should even consider giving it a second thought.
Most humans are still confident we are alone in the universe, because it “would be too long to travel”. How arrogant is that? I think extreamly arrogant.
Totally not trying to sow discourse but I don’t think the person you are replying meant that any meaningful search has occurred beyond our planet. I believe they may have just been saying that over the course of human history so many people have been trying to prove it and none of them have made any real progress.
Now we have museums showing people living with dinosaurs because enough people wouldn’t believe the bones were buried by the devil to test our faith… I’m all up for any evidence someone has, history is terrifying beautiful, and the bible has some interesting stories, but it doesn’t seem very grounded in this reality (personal opinion I suppose).
Oh no I love a good discussion about this stuff! Also wasn’t trying to sow discourse so hopefully that’s not how it came across. I definitely agree, but the person I was replying too specifically referred to creation as one big crime scene across the universe and how we’ve investigated it, when we most certainly haven’t. But yes, limiting our viewpoint to here on earth, I could definitely see people going either direction with it
Well, again, it doesn’t matter that we’re only able to observe a tiny fraction of the universe. The simple fact that billions of people haven’t been able to come up with proper evidence in over two millenia alone is a very good reason to remain extremely sceptic of any claims to the opposite.
I frankly do not understand your argument “we cannot disprove it, therefore it is possible”. Well yeah, you can never disprove the existence of anything.
What I was saying is that so far, noone has been able to prove it. Many people have tried over a long period of time. Therefore it is highly unlikely to be true, and we should refuse to believe in it until there is evidence - at which point I would be happy to change my position.
“Highly unlikely to be true” based on our teeny tiny frame of reference is wild. Remember when it was crazy to believe dinosaurs had feathers? There was no evidence of it… Until there was. And that’s just staying local to the planet.
Also, the size of the universe and how much we’re able to observe DOES matter. Using my plate metaphor again, imagine a graphic on the plate. The chip you got is white. There would never be any evidence of other colors, or of the picture as a whole, until you start looking for and seeing other pieces.
I do completely agree that as long as humanity has found no evidence there’s no reason to humor the idea. But millennia of experience in our corner of space is a fart in the wind in the grand scheme of things, and lack of evidence in an isolated system should not be taken as proof to the contrary. That’s all I was saying.
A human saying they haven’t seen something in the universe and using that to say said thing is unlikely is the same thing as a goldfish in a bowl saying an octopus is unlikely
Surely, that was only the last nail on the coffin?
I think of the whole universe, the whole “creation”, as some kind of cosmic crime scene, and billions of Christians over the centuries have very thoroughly and desperately scanned it for evidence as to who did it.
That scene is the largest possible scene - there literally exists nothing else - and the number of investigators looking for clues is vast. Yet despite these odds, nobody has ever found any kind of undeniable evidence that God did it all.
I don’t need to read a book to understand that you can’t believe in a claim that contradicts that reality.
Vast? Not disagreeing by any means but you’re kidding yourself if you think humanity has “thoroughly and desperately scanned” even a fraction of a fraction of only THE MILKY WAY. We haven’t even set foot on another planet in OUR OWN SOLAR SYSTEM. Even if we were to assume all the species on earth were looking
We are SO helplessly ignorant when it comes to the rest of the universe. We’re still grasping at straws and don’t know how half the stuff works or even where any of it is really located.
Will we ever find God? I don’t know, but we’re sure as shit nowhere near understanding anything enough to say a god DIDN’T do it.
But it’s like dropping a plate from the top of the empire state building. You’re a block away and a little chip hits you. You don’t know where it came from or why. You don’t know the larger whole it used to make up. You and your family could spend generations examining that one little chip and learn EVERYTHING about it while still knowing nothing about it’s origin or original shape.
Either way, we’ve got a lot to learn, which excites me
But we also have zero solid evidence that a God did do it. Making and believing such an enormous claim without evidence is absolutely bananas
I agree, just like it’d be insane to claim we know anything else about our creation without evidence
Do you think the astronomers/cosmologists/astrophysicists piecing together the origins of the universe are doing so without evidence?
By that logic, we can also not be sure that it wasn’t Ralph the Wonderllama who lives on Proxima Centauri and sings songs by Simply Red all day.
Also, you completely missed my point - which was that billions of people have been trying to come up with evidence for many centuries, and of course, they can only look at a tiny fraction of the universe, but that doesn’t matter. If you haven’t found even a trace of shit, you can’t possibly make a claim saying otherwise.
Well, you can, but in that case it’s such huge and extraordinary claim that frankly, noone in their right mind should even consider giving it a second thought.
Most humans are still confident we are alone in the universe, because it “would be too long to travel”. How arrogant is that? I think extreamly arrogant.
Completely agree. We’re so confident sometimes about things we know literally nothing about
Totally not trying to sow discourse but I don’t think the person you are replying meant that any meaningful search has occurred beyond our planet. I believe they may have just been saying that over the course of human history so many people have been trying to prove it and none of them have made any real progress.
Now we have museums showing people living with dinosaurs because enough people wouldn’t believe the bones were buried by the devil to test our faith… I’m all up for any evidence someone has, history is terrifying beautiful, and the bible has some interesting stories, but it doesn’t seem very grounded in this reality (personal opinion I suppose).
Oh no I love a good discussion about this stuff! Also wasn’t trying to sow discourse so hopefully that’s not how it came across. I definitely agree, but the person I was replying too specifically referred to creation as one big crime scene across the universe and how we’ve investigated it, when we most certainly haven’t. But yes, limiting our viewpoint to here on earth, I could definitely see people going either direction with it
Well, again, it doesn’t matter that we’re only able to observe a tiny fraction of the universe. The simple fact that billions of people haven’t been able to come up with proper evidence in over two millenia alone is a very good reason to remain extremely sceptic of any claims to the opposite.
I frankly do not understand your argument “we cannot disprove it, therefore it is possible”. Well yeah, you can never disprove the existence of anything.
What I was saying is that so far, noone has been able to prove it. Many people have tried over a long period of time. Therefore it is highly unlikely to be true, and we should refuse to believe in it until there is evidence - at which point I would be happy to change my position.
“Highly unlikely to be true” based on our teeny tiny frame of reference is wild. Remember when it was crazy to believe dinosaurs had feathers? There was no evidence of it… Until there was. And that’s just staying local to the planet.
Also, the size of the universe and how much we’re able to observe DOES matter. Using my plate metaphor again, imagine a graphic on the plate. The chip you got is white. There would never be any evidence of other colors, or of the picture as a whole, until you start looking for and seeing other pieces.
I do completely agree that as long as humanity has found no evidence there’s no reason to humor the idea. But millennia of experience in our corner of space is a fart in the wind in the grand scheme of things, and lack of evidence in an isolated system should not be taken as proof to the contrary. That’s all I was saying.
A human saying they haven’t seen something in the universe and using that to say said thing is unlikely is the same thing as a goldfish in a bowl saying an octopus is unlikely