Assuming this comment isn’t ironic: there is no such thing as a good landlord. Landlords are parasitic middlemen who live by leeching off the value created by workers. They contribute no value whatsoever.
This is admitted even in mainstream economics, its termed rent-seeking.
Okay, I’ll bite. I just bought a 4-bed/3-bath (actually 4 bathrooms, but bathroom math made it “3-bath”) because we are a family of four in an expensive tourist spot and wanted a guest bedroom for family and visitors. It just so happened one bed and a 3/4 bathroom is in an attached 1-bedroom apartment with its own kitchen and living room.
So when I retire, and my oldest is out of the house to college, we are thinking we could rent that particular part (at a very reasonable rate to people we know). It is part of the house, so I can’t sell it separately. So the choice is be a landlord, or don’t offer housing (I suppose I could make it an AirBnB and make even more money, but this area is already fucked for housing for that reason).
So if there is no such thing as a good landlord, what would you recommend in a situation like this? Let someone live there for free? Then they’d be costing me money. Don’t rent it out? AirBnB?
Yeah I mean, I could understand it being actually just three bathrooms, two for the main three bedrooms and one for the seperate unit. It’s not a self-contained unit without it. But if there are four toilets in that house that is massively overkill.
So when I retire, and my oldest is out of the house to college, we are thinking we could rent that particular part (at a very reasonable rate to people we know). It is part of the house, so I can’t sell it separately.
If you don’t need that space, then you might as well sell it and let another family make use of it instead.
Yours is not a unique situation; a lot of older people downsize when their kids move out, and they have a lot of extra rooms and space they no longer need. Its the right decision anyway, as you’re now free to be more mobile, and get rid of all the years of accumulated junk.
So you’re saying that person should sell their house because one of the rooms is unoccupied? What if their oldest loses their job and can’t find a new one, but has to move back, and then can’t because they downsized to a smaller house?
So you’re saying that person should sell their house because one of the rooms is unoccupied?
If they can’t afford it, yes? That’s what the rest of us do. We make do with what we have and budget accordingly. If something is too expensive, well tough. The problem is that a lot of people are facing problems like housing, food, and healthcare being too expensive, and all three of those things are required to live. At some point budgeting won’t save you.
I have no sympathy for people whose biggest problem is “I can’t afford this extra room in the house we own.”
But what if they can afford it, but just don’t like seeing reasonable housing go to waste? Not enough to try to exactly right-size their housing and move everything they own, but enough to offer it up for rent.
It’s certainly a niche that isn’t the typical story, but renting out portions of your house is a scenario that could make sense.
What if their oldest loses their job and can’t find a new one, but has to move back, and then can’t because they downsized to a smaller house?
What if their oldest loses their job and now for no fault of their own the renter is suddenly forced to find a new place to live to accommodate the landlords son? But they’ve been spending their money on rent so they don’t have enough savings to find a decent place?
Sure you can argue they dont need that space, but a lot of kids return after college. If I had kids I’d only downsize once they are well established. It’s about ensuring the security of your family and ensuring they have a place to come back to.
Is it better to let that sit space vacant for 4+ years though?
Is there a third option? It’s an unused room in a house that’s being used.
They can rent it out, leave it out, or sell their house and downsize but then what if their oldest is out of work and can’t find a new job and has to come home, but now because they downsized there’s no room for them. How does that help? It seems like there are only two valid options unless I’m missing something.
In this case I understand not downsizing until your kids are established with a job/place to live.
Depending on equity and their mortgage payment it may not even be possible to downsize without paying more per month. That’s the insanity of the current market.
Remember this is an occupied family home with an unoccupied room. Not a whole property.
a lot of older people downsize when their kids move out,
And we plan to, when both kids move out. But just one kid, with one five years behind the other? But anyway, isn’t moving the guest space to the main house section and renting out the apartment essentially “downsizing” to a three-bedroom anyway? Either way, the house remains a two-unit house. If somebody wants a temporary living situation by themselves or with one partner, what is wrong with them renting an apartment from me?
Look, I get it, the system is set up to screw people over to get big corpos big money. If somebody is living in apartment for a decade, that is a fucked up situation. But where I live there are military single young’uns wanting to get out of barracks for a year or two before their tour is done and they transfer, or regularly traveling nurses or others who come seasonally for work who aren’t in a position to buy a house and wouldn’t want to.
This whole “no good landlords” reeks of the same mentality as “no good lawyers.” Yes, there are a lot of greedy, unscrupulous (or overly adversarial) lawyers, but there are situations where having a lawyer is really important and there are plenty of good ones for those situations. The problem is a system that allows and encourages the profession to be abused.
This whole “no good landlords” reeks of the same mentality as “no good lawyers.”
Not the same at all, as lawyers do work to get paid.
Landlords rent-seek by charging access to important and scarce property that they themselves don’t use. They extract value through ownership alone, and add no labor value of their own to the process, that the tenants as owners couldn’t do for themselves.
If somebody wants a temporary living situation by themselves or with one partner, what is wrong with them renting an apartment from me?
What gives you the right to these people’s paychecks? If you’re not using it, then sell it, and don’t rent-seek.
There is nothing defensible about being a landlord. Its not exactly the same as owning slaves or owning capital, but all three are based on absentee ownership and extracting value from working people.
The tenants can do upkeep themselves, or pay people to do that. Rent-seeking can still exist even if the rent-seekers promise to do maintenance (which in reality they don’t have much interest in doing, especially if it doesn’t add value to the property). Tenants often have to live for months with broken ACs, appliances, because their landlords have no desire to upkeep temporary items. The yearly lease is signed, and they’re getting their money.
My first landlord sucked, my second landlord was ok, but I suspect most wouldn’t be. They repaired everything in a timely fashion, and waived my rent for three months when I got laid off to let me get back on my feet. Still only made sense because I was in college and wasn’t sticking around that area long enough to justify buying then selling a property, but for the context acceptable landlords can exist.
Huh? Do you think it’s not labor when they fix broken doors, outlets, change locks, upgrade toilets, fridges, etc.? Some landlords even do it themselves without hiring subcontractors.
First, that doesn’t solve the problem because then somebody else has two units in one building.
Second, downsize… from a four bed to a three bed? Not sure what sense that makes. Our needs won’t have changed dramatically.
Another piece that I didn’t mention is that I’m in the military, in a place with 3-year tours (so fairly temporary), and the young single people who arrive usually don’t wany anything too permanent, and are not in a position to buy. But I do know what their allowance for housing it, so I would be able to charge less than their allowance for housing, meaning they would get money out of the deal (and stuff is expensive here, so I’m not sure how they live anyway), and I get a respectful, reliable tenant (and we could offer home-cooked meals to whoever stays).
I know it’s a unique circumstance, and an exception hardly disproves the rule, but I don’t think “there’s no such thing as a good landlord” is a true blanket statement.
This has nothing to do with being a “good” person.
That said.
They could create a housing cooperative where all the tenants are owner-members and share the property collectively. If they live in the building too they can also be an equal owner-member. If they live somewhere else, they have to give up ownership.
Not an apartment complex, but a building makes sense.
I’m not saying it’s just, but there are some loans that allow you to buy a quadplex but you have to live there. You are free to rent out the remaining units.
Well obviously the most moral thing would be to live in it themselves or give it away to someone who actually wants to live in it. I accept that practically nobody is gonna be virtuous enough to just give away a free apartment to a homeless person, but selling it for a (at least somewhat) reasonable price is probably what I’d realistically do (assuming no close friend or family member wanted it).
Renting it out is still inherently exploiting the person living there.
Also consider that no “good person” simply owns a residential property that they don’t live in.
I know I’m not who you’re replying to and other people might disagree with parts of this, but can anyone seriously not agree that all landlords are scum?
Renting it out is still inherently exploiting the person living there.
There are legit reasons to rent and not own everything. Just like tools, might be better to rent a table saw than buy one that now you have to store and maintain.
If tools were collectively owned, for instance, they could be kept in a community tool locker/garage that the whole community would own and be able to borrow whenever needed. “Rent” would be replaced by a small fee paid into the community to maintain the tools, not some profit seeking parasitism from a renter looking to exploit people’s need for tools.
bullshit. me pointing out that renting is acceptable in certain situations and price gouging renters are not the same. they’re related, but are different debates.
If tools were collectively owned, for instance, they could be kept in a community tool locker/garage that the whole community would own and be able to borrow whenever needed. “Rent” would be replaced by a small fee paid into the community to maintain the tools, not some profit seeking parasitism from a renter looking to exploit people’s need for tools.
there is nothing wrong with this either. my point was i have zero reason to ever own an auger. i’d rent it, use it, then return. i don’t want to store that shit or maintain it. i live in a condo with limited storage space for that, not to mention i’d probably use it once a decade.
Ok but this isn’t really the same thing. A home isn’t a tool you rent just to use when you need it. Everyone needs a shelter to live in.
You give two reasons it’s preferable to rent rather than own your home:
You have to store it.
That’s just ridiculous.
You have to maintain it.
You do realise that you’re still paying to maintain it, right? The landlord is just also taking extra. Even if the landlord were charging you only what was strictly necessary for maintenance (which they aren’t), they’d still have unnecessary leverage over you just for existing in a space.
Don’t try to make excuses for landlords. We all know they’re vermin. They’re not doing you any favours by forcing you to keep paying high prices to live.
Everyone needs a shelter to live in, but that doesn’t mean everyone can afford buying one outright. What about the people who can’t afford to buy one outright?
If someone can’t afford to buy a house or a condo, does that mean they shouldn’t get to live in one?
What about people who want the freedom to move from place to place without being tied down, too bad, they have to own a place?
that doesn’t mean everyone can afford buying one outright
Generally that’s what mortgages are for. Considering rent needs to cover the cost of [ mortgage + expenses + the landlord’s profit ] anyone that can afford rent can afford the mortgage.
That’s not to mention the reason housing prices are so absurd is because landlords are buying up all the available supply in order to profit it off of it existing. Without landlords housing becomes much more affordable.
What about people who want the freedom to move from place to place without being tied down, too bad, they have to own a place?
We are having a housing crisis right now. So how about we worry about the large group of people who want to own shelter and can’t, and then we can worry about the much smaller group of people who have the means to move constantly but find hiring a realtor just too much effort.
Assuming this comment isn’t ironic: there is no such thing as a good landlord. Landlords are parasitic middlemen who live by leeching off the value created by workers. They contribute no value whatsoever.
This is admitted even in mainstream economics, its termed rent-seeking.
Okay, I’ll bite. I just bought a 4-bed/3-bath (actually 4 bathrooms, but bathroom math made it “3-bath”) because we are a family of four in an expensive tourist spot and wanted a guest bedroom for family and visitors. It just so happened one bed and a 3/4 bathroom is in an attached 1-bedroom apartment with its own kitchen and living room.
So when I retire, and my oldest is out of the house to college, we are thinking we could rent that particular part (at a very reasonable rate to people we know). It is part of the house, so I can’t sell it separately. So the choice is be a landlord, or don’t offer housing (I suppose I could make it an AirBnB and make even more money, but this area is already fucked for housing for that reason).
So if there is no such thing as a good landlord, what would you recommend in a situation like this? Let someone live there for free? Then they’d be costing me money. Don’t rent it out? AirBnB?
What the hell kinda house has a bathroom per bedroom??? That’s insane.
My in-laws have a house with one of the bedrooms with it’s own bath and it’s own external entrance, you have to walk outside to get to that bedroom.
Yeah I mean, I could understand it being actually just three bathrooms, two for the main three bedrooms and one for the seperate unit. It’s not a self-contained unit without it. But if there are four toilets in that house that is massively overkill.
If you don’t need that space, then you might as well sell it and let another family make use of it instead.
Yours is not a unique situation; a lot of older people downsize when their kids move out, and they have a lot of extra rooms and space they no longer need. Its the right decision anyway, as you’re now free to be more mobile, and get rid of all the years of accumulated junk.
So you’re saying that person should sell their house because one of the rooms is unoccupied? What if their oldest loses their job and can’t find a new one, but has to move back, and then can’t because they downsized to a smaller house?
I’m not so sure that is a great solution.
If they can’t afford it, yes? That’s what the rest of us do. We make do with what we have and budget accordingly. If something is too expensive, well tough. The problem is that a lot of people are facing problems like housing, food, and healthcare being too expensive, and all three of those things are required to live. At some point budgeting won’t save you.
I have no sympathy for people whose biggest problem is “I can’t afford this extra room in the house we own.”
But what if they can afford it, but just don’t like seeing reasonable housing go to waste? Not enough to try to exactly right-size their housing and move everything they own, but enough to offer it up for rent.
It’s certainly a niche that isn’t the typical story, but renting out portions of your house is a scenario that could make sense.
What if their oldest loses their job and now for no fault of their own the renter is suddenly forced to find a new place to live to accommodate the landlords son? But they’ve been spending their money on rent so they don’t have enough savings to find a decent place?
Sure you can argue they dont need that space, but a lot of kids return after college. If I had kids I’d only downsize once they are well established. It’s about ensuring the security of your family and ensuring they have a place to come back to.
Is it better to let that sit space vacant for 4+ years though?
There are two options? Rent it for profit or leave it empty?
Is there a third option? It’s an unused room in a house that’s being used.
They can rent it out, leave it out, or sell their house and downsize but then what if their oldest is out of work and can’t find a new job and has to come home, but now because they downsized there’s no room for them. How does that help? It seems like there are only two valid options unless I’m missing something.
In this case I understand not downsizing until your kids are established with a job/place to live.
Depending on equity and their mortgage payment it may not even be possible to downsize without paying more per month. That’s the insanity of the current market.
Remember this is an occupied family home with an unoccupied room. Not a whole property.
What would you suggest?
And we plan to, when both kids move out. But just one kid, with one five years behind the other? But anyway, isn’t moving the guest space to the main house section and renting out the apartment essentially “downsizing” to a three-bedroom anyway? Either way, the house remains a two-unit house. If somebody wants a temporary living situation by themselves or with one partner, what is wrong with them renting an apartment from me?
Look, I get it, the system is set up to screw people over to get big corpos big money. If somebody is living in apartment for a decade, that is a fucked up situation. But where I live there are military single young’uns wanting to get out of barracks for a year or two before their tour is done and they transfer, or regularly traveling nurses or others who come seasonally for work who aren’t in a position to buy a house and wouldn’t want to.
This whole “no good landlords” reeks of the same mentality as “no good lawyers.” Yes, there are a lot of greedy, unscrupulous (or overly adversarial) lawyers, but there are situations where having a lawyer is really important and there are plenty of good ones for those situations. The problem is a system that allows and encourages the profession to be abused.
Not the same at all, as lawyers do work to get paid.
Landlords rent-seek by charging access to important and scarce property that they themselves don’t use. They extract value through ownership alone, and add no labor value of their own to the process, that the tenants as owners couldn’t do for themselves.
What gives you the right to these people’s paychecks? If you’re not using it, then sell it, and don’t rent-seek.
There is nothing defensible about being a landlord. Its not exactly the same as owning slaves or owning capital, but all three are based on absentee ownership and extracting value from working people.
What about landlords that do repairs themselves though? Is that not by definition labor or am I missing something here?
The tenants can do upkeep themselves, or pay people to do that. Rent-seeking can still exist even if the rent-seekers promise to do maintenance (which in reality they don’t have much interest in doing, especially if it doesn’t add value to the property). Tenants often have to live for months with broken ACs, appliances, because their landlords have no desire to upkeep temporary items. The yearly lease is signed, and they’re getting their money.
My first landlord sucked, my second landlord was ok, but I suspect most wouldn’t be. They repaired everything in a timely fashion, and waived my rent for three months when I got laid off to let me get back on my feet. Still only made sense because I was in college and wasn’t sticking around that area long enough to justify buying then selling a property, but for the context acceptable landlords can exist.
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Huh? Do you think it’s not labor when they fix broken doors, outlets, change locks, upgrade toilets, fridges, etc.? Some landlords even do it themselves without hiring subcontractors.
What gives those people a right to a paycheck? Why aren’t they just making things and selling them.
if people could just make things and sell them without having to go through a capitalist…
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Commerce != capitalism
Right, you should be building things and giving them away to someone who needs it, for free.
Downsize when you don’t need the space anymore? Would be my guess.
First, that doesn’t solve the problem because then somebody else has two units in one building.
Second, downsize… from a four bed to a three bed? Not sure what sense that makes. Our needs won’t have changed dramatically.
Another piece that I didn’t mention is that I’m in the military, in a place with 3-year tours (so fairly temporary), and the young single people who arrive usually don’t wany anything too permanent, and are not in a position to buy. But I do know what their allowance for housing it, so I would be able to charge less than their allowance for housing, meaning they would get money out of the deal (and stuff is expensive here, so I’m not sure how they live anyway), and I get a respectful, reliable tenant (and we could offer home-cooked meals to whoever stays).
I know it’s a unique circumstance, and an exception hardly disproves the rule, but I don’t think “there’s no such thing as a good landlord” is a true blanket statement.
A lot of kids move back after college. I definitely wouldn’t downsize until my family was secure and for sure no longer needed the space.
Now the question is it better to allow that space sit vacant or rent out the space.
I think there is a defensible position for renting out a temporarily unused space in your primary home versus buying vacant properties solely to rent.
Moving is kinda stressful though, but if you can manage that downsizing would probably be the right call.
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Suppose a person owns an apartment building. What’s the process they should follow to behave as a good person should?
This has nothing to do with being a “good” person.
That said.
They could create a housing cooperative where all the tenants are owner-members and share the property collectively. If they live in the building too they can also be an equal owner-member. If they live somewhere else, they have to give up ownership.
No ones acquires an entire apartment building in the first place with the purpose of living in it. They do it to become rent-seeking parasites.
But to your hypothetical, they could create a co-op as @[email protected] mentioned.
Not an apartment complex, but a building makes sense.
I’m not saying it’s just, but there are some loans that allow you to buy a quadplex but you have to live there. You are free to rent out the remaining units.
Sell it to the tenants.
Well obviously the most moral thing would be to live in it themselves or give it away to someone who actually wants to live in it. I accept that practically nobody is gonna be virtuous enough to just give away a free apartment to a homeless person, but selling it for a (at least somewhat) reasonable price is probably what I’d realistically do (assuming no close friend or family member wanted it).
Renting it out is still inherently exploiting the person living there.
Also consider that no “good person” simply owns a residential property that they don’t live in.
I know I’m not who you’re replying to and other people might disagree with parts of this, but can anyone seriously not agree that all landlords are scum?
There are legit reasons to rent and not own everything. Just like tools, might be better to rent a table saw than buy one that now you have to store and maintain.
That’s not a reason for anyone to make money from rents.
That’s a different discussion. I’m just saying there are reasons to rent rather than own.
That’s not a different discussion, though.
If tools were collectively owned, for instance, they could be kept in a community tool locker/garage that the whole community would own and be able to borrow whenever needed. “Rent” would be replaced by a small fee paid into the community to maintain the tools, not some profit seeking parasitism from a renter looking to exploit people’s need for tools.
Renting isn’t the problem. Renters are.
bullshit. me pointing out that renting is acceptable in certain situations and price gouging renters are not the same. they’re related, but are different debates.
there is nothing wrong with this either. my point was i have zero reason to ever own an auger. i’d rent it, use it, then return. i don’t want to store that shit or maintain it. i live in a condo with limited storage space for that, not to mention i’d probably use it once a decade.
wut?
Rent seekers are parasites and the world would be better off without them.
They are unproductive exploiters and can and should be completely replaced.
Ok but this isn’t really the same thing. A home isn’t a tool you rent just to use when you need it. Everyone needs a shelter to live in.
You give two reasons it’s preferable to rent rather than own your home:
That’s just ridiculous.
You do realise that you’re still paying to maintain it, right? The landlord is just also taking extra. Even if the landlord were charging you only what was strictly necessary for maintenance (which they aren’t), they’d still have unnecessary leverage over you just for existing in a space.
Don’t try to make excuses for landlords. We all know they’re vermin. They’re not doing you any favours by forcing you to keep paying high prices to live.
(Edit: formatting)
Everyone needs a shelter to live in, but that doesn’t mean everyone can afford buying one outright. What about the people who can’t afford to buy one outright?
If someone can’t afford to buy a house or a condo, does that mean they shouldn’t get to live in one?
What about people who want the freedom to move from place to place without being tied down, too bad, they have to own a place?
Generally that’s what mortgages are for. Considering rent needs to cover the cost of [ mortgage + expenses + the landlord’s profit ] anyone that can afford rent can afford the mortgage.
That’s not to mention the reason housing prices are so absurd is because landlords are buying up all the available supply in order to profit it off of it existing. Without landlords housing becomes much more affordable.
We are having a housing crisis right now. So how about we worry about the large group of people who want to own shelter and can’t, and then we can worry about the much smaller group of people who have the means to move constantly but find hiring a realtor just too much effort.
Well I didn’t know you knew the answer to everything. And I’m not defending anyone, I’m presenting a different scenario, one that I have been in.