I was once talking with one of my classmates and he said that in the future, there will be universal basic income implemented by entire world. I was not convinced at that time and thought he is just being stupid but given the layoffs happening and massive amount of unemployment, I am thinking about this possibility. What do you say?
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No. Once the people have the time and leisure to think and mingle they might find out who the real source of the problem is. So it’s better to keep your slaves busy and struggling to keep the roof over their head and their belly not empty.
no lol.
have you ever met a rich person? like a real rich person? they’re arrogant and snobby and think the rest of us have no right to exist. there’s a reason there’s this massive push to implement AI. part of it is to save money but the other part of it is that they legit think that we’re all lesser and AI replacing call centers and fast food jobs will hasten our departure.
we’ll all end up being thrown in a volcano before they implement UBI.
i’d say asia has more of a chance in the long run just because social responsibility is part of culture and that can often act as an antidote to the worst parts of capitalism. south korea can be gross but at least they throw their corrupt leaders in jail…
no chance of this happening in the states.
have you met a rich person?
No way the entire world gets on board, and in a reasonable way. Human psychology stands in the way of that.
Whether it gets experimented and implemented more in some countries - possible - but I don’t see as particularly likely or unlikely.
It’s one solution to resolving the tensions of capitalism and social capitalism and the degradation of social capitalism. Whether it will be UBI or something else, and where - we will see.
It’s that of we all die of heat death.
I feel really sad for what mother Earth is going through and we, her children, are not doing anything to save it.
To be honest I’m not fan of UBI. I’m more fond of redistribution of work.
If there’s less things to do due to automatization let’s just all work less hours with full income.
I think ubi would do that
People have a baseline income and can work less or maybe even not at all if noy necessary. Those that really want more can work and earn more then
I think it will be very important for that to work that we first put wealth caps. Nobody should be able to have a net worth that is an X amount. Anything above that should be taxed 100%. Say, 10 million for example, nice upper limit.
If all the nasocs are covered, free healthcare, free education, UBI, wealth caps, I think we’d live in a near utopia
I in my heart of hearts see UBI as unworkable and inflationary, as universal basic income doesn’t set universal basic buying power which is very hard to do without a socialist system guaranteeing housing, food, etc. I also don’t believe people are ok with a disconnection between work and financial value. Money is one of the few ways to quantify the value of work and humans in general have a need to feel what they do is valued, particularly if it takes up so much of human identity and what they do on a day to day.
UBI is a concession to capitalists. It pacifies the working class while maintaining the system that oppresses us. At best, it’s a band aid. We need full blown socialism. Not “Democratic socialism”, real socialism, in which the workers own and control the means of production. That is the only path to working class liberation.
you mean communism?
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Zionazi, Corporate, Oligarch fascim will put up a good fight. UBI is more power redistribution than any wealth redistribution. It becomes easier for everyone to make a lot of money and get richer. The objection is about reducing fascist totalitarian establishment power.
what do you wanna say?
Establishment does not want power redistribution. Most people look to government as having a role of providing shared prosperity, instead of just forcing you into war and to go die for your King’s amibitions. A conditional welfare system is rationed by political preference, and expensive to police and administer. UBI provides the shared prosperity at a 0 effective tax rate. You’re simply transfering very high income’s taxes to lower income people in a net 0 transaction for the state. With UBI, every corrupt empire spending plan must justify taking away equal cash alternative to every citizen/resident, and so the political power of establishment/rulership representatives is redistributed to the citizenry far better than election promises meant to champion a specific constituency (necessarily at expense of all others) without the obligation to follow through and deliver. More bureaucratic allies of the empire is also a corruption, if their function is fundamentally useless and can be replaced by UBI.
UBI leads to massive economic growth because wealth always trickles up, and redistribution is just step 1 in trickling up to all workers and owners who make more to sell more to broader population that can buy more.
A better closing sentence would have been. The objection to UBI is that the establishment loves more fascist totalitarian power instead of losing that power.
It will never happen.
Not because it is a bad idea; it is an AWESOME idea. Work used to be something you do for the collectivity; you do something for the group, in exchange of something from the group. Today, a work is a mean to earn money, regardless of the collectivity. We do meaningless jobs, which often gives nothing to the collectivity, just because we have a rent to pay, we want vacations and a new car. A universal basic income would completely break this; I would work to bring something to the group, not to reach a stupid objective for the company.
However, there is a fringe of people which will not gain anything from this, even lose leverage and power over the masses: the 1%, the millionaires and billionaires. They will do whatever they can to kill it, saying only freeloaders and foreigners will benefits from it. And the masses will vote against it, and it will be a big victory for capitalism. Until global warming accelerate, we will have nothing to eat anymore and earth will be inhospitable for humans. The end.
The billionaires would have to fund it, and I don’t believe for a second they wouldn’t leave us all to starve.
they are the disgrace on humanity.
they will just fund politicians to vote against it, gop is totally on board, theyonly need to fund people like schumer and hakeem.
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really? where?
Sorry, confused UBI with unions somehow.
UBI has to have a lot of folks wanting it and theres contingents that would rather starve then see those people get a thin dime, with “those people” having various meanings. Then there’s the temporarily embarassed millionaires, and of course the Fox news crew who think socio-commu-trans folk are going to dye their kids hair blue and make them worship Satan.
I think it’s absolutely necessary as stop-gap on the way to a truly post-scarcity society where money is irrelevant, but highly unlikely because greedy cunts run everything.
When UBI starts being seriously considered on a large scale, you’ll likely see a massive influence campaign against it. Something along the lines of “If you give people free money, they’ll never get a job.” It will likely have racial undertones that range from subtle and implicit to wildly explicit, depending on the forum.
If low information working class people, those who would benefit the most from such a program, fall for that campaign, as they often do, you’ll see a backlash against it that could prevent it from becoming law.
I don’t feel like UBI is a that great of an idea. Prices of products change toward what people earn. So when there is a standard amount of money for everyone, company’s will increase prices to any amount that’s still payable. That will quickly drive inflation up. I feel like it will just going to siphon money into the pockets of the super rich.
I heard some evangelicals in US saying that it is unbiblical to give UBI, so I can guess that some people really want to demonize this concept.
I talked with my mother about this years ago. She confidently said, if you give people free money, nobody will do any work. I argued but she wouldn’t budge.
She is now comfortably retired, and makes hats with her time, and sells them. But that’s different.
I’d vote for ubi but i personally know plenty of moochers. Like never worked a day in their lives at 30 would laugh while their grandma died instead of helping their own family while being offered money for it.
Funny enough every mooch i know is a white man.
You know, everyone who I personally know who passionately argues that if you give people free money they won’t do any work has been a stay at home mom.
Stay at home moms get “free” money from the spouse who goes to work and supports them.
I would also argue that stay at home moms work harder than a lot of us who have full time jobs. I get to leave work and mentally check out, they’re “at work” all the time.
Someone should point this out to the people who make this argument.
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What if UBI was locked behind biometrics and voting republican?
You just described the campaigns against welfare in general that have been going on for decades, which is also what I see happening with UBI. It will absolutely be sunk the same way any other social benefit is sunk through misinformation and outright lies.
Do you think it would help if you told them 40% of adults already don’t have jobs and that making that number higher isn’t as big of a leap as they think?
Don’t forget racism. “Look at those people, existing with that color skin. On your dime!?!?”
They called that out specifically
UBI is a bandaid to keep capitalism propped up by neo-liberals. It’s contingent on the idea that society is dependent on people spending money, rather than getting essential services and enough free time to maintain mental stability.
rather than getting essential services
UBI says income, not money. resources and services provided to you would still be income.
Brought to you by Carl’s Jr.
It makes working voluntary but still incentivized, whereas without something like that, someone needs to force people to do the jobs that provide those essential services. People will volunteer doing fun things for their local community, but generally no further.
nah. there’s people out there whose favourite thing is to do the niche “yucky” or tedious things, but they can’t, because they had to get a job in marketing, or work in retail because they needed ANY job just so they could survive.
Yes, I’m sure plenty of people actually wanted to become plumbers, farmers or construction workers, but had to settle for a job in marketing or such because that was all they could find.
i think you get my point, though. during the pandemic, the garden centres emptied out, because people wanted to grow their own food.
Growing your own food isn’t the same as growing food for 10,000 people at all. My family’s been growing a portion of our own food all my life, don’t think any of us wants to work 12+ hour days in the fields in the summer.
nah. there’s people out there whose favourite thing is to do the niche “yucky” or tedious things, but they can’t, because they had to get a job in marketing, or work in retail because they needed ANY job just so they could survive.
This is one of those ideas that only makes sense at the surface level and fails at the slightest bit of scrutiny. Yes, it is technically correct that any job out there will have some nonzero number of people who would do it just because they want to. But that’s no way to run a civilization.
That system only works if there just by random coincidence happens to be a perfect match between the jobs people want to do and the jobs that need doing. Are there are a few weirdos that would wade waist-deep in literal shit to clean out sewers for free, just because they enjoy it? It’s a big world and people are weird, so there probably are a few people out there like that. Are there enough of those rare weirdos to keep all our sewers operating? Highly unlikely.
I know your system would fail because we have clear evidence from our own economy that there is a major mismatch between the jobs people want and the jobs that need doing. Look at every job out there that attracts people who want to do the job for its own sake. Look at university teaching, for instance. Universities can get away with having classes taught by poorly paid adjuncts because lots of people would like to teach university courses. There are far more potential university lecturers out there than the number of lecturers universities can actually support. Universities can pay their adjuncts a pittance, and they still have people sign up to teach classes. The low adjunct pay problem would disappear tomorrow if people simply stopped taking adjunct teaching jobs.
Look around to nearly any field that people go into primarily out of passion. They nearly all pay a pittance. “Let people choose whatever job they want” simply isn’t a viable way of running an economy. Everyone wants to teach kids or care for puppies. No one wants to clean out sewers.
You always have to have some way of getting people to work jobs that they wouldn’t choose voluntarily. There are simply things that need to be done for society to function that not many people want to do. In a capitalist system, this is done by offering higher wages for positions few people want. In socialist systems, this looks like offering more perks like better housing to unwanted jobs (pay by another name.) But you’re trying to hand waive away an unavoidable problem by dismissing it as, “no worries, people will just do what they want and things will work out!”
Universities can get away with having classes taught by poorly paid adjuncts because lots of people would like to teach university courses
that’s because those jobs come with pensions and job security. if a UBI was in place, then jobs like that would have no choice, but to offer more money. same with the undesirable jobs like cleaning sewers. can’t fill it? offer more money. this is why farmers have to rely on migrant workers, because they simply can’t pay enough
Yeah, I mean it’s not like a lot of those services are already populated by people who are underpaid and overworked because they love what they do and love helping people…
You mean people who got the jobs they could get and would prefer not working those jobs if they could get away with it. Trust me, a lot of people working physically demanding jobs don’t do it because of their enjoyment of wrecking their own bodies.
