Take it up with your ancestors (or the English, if you have no English ancestors yourself). They started calling the Dutch “Dutch” when people in what is today The Netherlands and Germany were both called deutsch/dutch, and the English didn’t care to adjust when the distinction started to matter/people from the Netherlands stopped calling themselves deutsch/dutch.
But Germans are not much better, it’s absurd that Italian city names that aren’t at all hard to pronounce for Germans have different names in German, e.g. Torino, Milano, Roma (Turin, Mailand, Rom), and we also call Japan “Japan”, even though Japanese is one of the few languages that uses a word for Germany that is derived from “Deutschland” and “Nippon” isn’t hard to pronounce for Germans, either.
Also, the saxons never lived in the area of the German federal state of Saxony.
Guess what? The modern state of Saxony (aka Upper Saxony, Obersachsen) is not even contiguous with the state of Lower Saxony (Niedersachsen). They’re separated by nearly 300 km.
Although to be somewhat fair they are connected by Sachsen-Anhalt. And basically all of northern Germany was at one point called Saxony (“Old Saxony”, Altesachsen), at least by some others in the first millennium.
Of course history is funny; The lands of Upper Saxony weren’t part of the medieval Duchy of Saxony that followed, despite eventually taking the name (via “Electorate of Saxony” and then “Kingdom of Saxony”).
But anyway the “Anglo-Saxons” were probably really from Denmark and northern Schleswig-Holstein. The southern parts of their region might’ve been called Saxony at the time.
(I’m mostly posting this because I wanted to figure it all out)
But Germans are not much better, it’s absurd that Italian city names that aren’t at all hard to pronounce for Germans have different names in German, e.g. Torino, Milano, Roma (Turin, Mailand, Rom), …
Nobody is better. All languages do this to an extent. The Germanized city names especially in Northern Italy also stem from the fact that they used to be under Austrian control and they claim to speak German too.
Exactly. In Spanish, we have some ‘curious’ names for Germany and its states and cities. «Alemania» is the name of the country. «Renania-Palatinado» is Rheinland-Pfalz, Bayern got turned into «Baviera». «Colonia» is Köln, «Friburgo de Brisgovia» is Freiburg im Brisgau…
You are assuming that the name as it is in Italian today has always been the same and it isn’t. Both Milano and Mailand are linguistic descendants of the name whichever people who first set up shop there spoke and decided to call the place. And that wasn’t anywhere close to modern Italian. They are both valid.
English ditches the o and has Florence on the books as well. Geographical names follow no logical rule. Most are just historical accidents, some historical crimes. This is more in the former category if you ask me.
Cologne, Munich, Brussels, Naples, The Hague … It’s everywhere.
Those have more straightforward transliterations. But where the fuck does the L even come from?
Firenze was also the art and culture capitol of Europe for quite some time, so this isn’t some backwater town. It’s like the CCP telling people that New York is now officially called “Not Yoodle” in Chinese.
No, in Italian, the city’s name is Firenze, which is much cooler IMO than nasal EN/DE Florence. Which, TIL, is from the Latin Florenti, as in “Florentine” as the ajdectival form.
I speak two languages so yes, i’d say it really is. Some spanish place names are completely different than english ones and trying to dredge them up in conversation can be tedious if you don’t often use them.
But keep downvoting people you mildly disagree with. It really improves the platform and discussions. /s
Cool beans, I speak three languages and there’s no way you believe that some arbitrary vocabulary is harder than grammatical finesses, or some outrageous slang, or idioms/shibboleths.
Maybe you aren’t “speaking” that second language as well as you think?
Also, imagine caring about votes 😂 it’s not a disagree button, Brudi. But your high effort post probably deserves all the updoots.
Those are good points but Torino as Turin is complicated, some folks there still call it that in dialect etc. and historically, run by the Lombards and all that.
English is terrible at this, Venice is Venezia, if you can say pizza you can say that.
“Nippon” isn’t hard to pronounce for Germans, either.
I don’t know about that. Even if Germans are not shy of pronouncing letters wrongly (using V as F for instance), the P in Nippon makes no sense in German. It would have to be spelled with an H to make the right sound.
OK. German has an H (same as English, which makes it weird that it’s written with a P in the first place) and isn’t shy about spelling reforms, either.
Take it up with your ancestors (or the English, if you have no English ancestors yourself). They started calling the Dutch “Dutch” when people in what is today The Netherlands and Germany were both called deutsch/dutch, and the English didn’t care to adjust when the distinction started to matter/people from the Netherlands stopped calling themselves deutsch/dutch.
But Germans are not much better, it’s absurd that Italian city names that aren’t at all hard to pronounce for Germans have different names in German, e.g. Torino, Milano, Roma (Turin, Mailand, Rom), and we also call Japan “Japan”, even though Japanese is one of the few languages that uses a word for Germany that is derived from “Deutschland” and “Nippon” isn’t hard to pronounce for Germans, either.
Also, the saxons never lived in the area of the German federal state of Saxony.
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Guess what? The modern state of Saxony (aka Upper Saxony, Obersachsen) is not even contiguous with the state of Lower Saxony (Niedersachsen). They’re separated by nearly 300 km.
Although to be somewhat fair they are connected by Sachsen-Anhalt. And basically all of northern Germany was at one point called Saxony (“Old Saxony”, Altesachsen), at least by some others in the first millennium.
Of course history is funny; The lands of Upper Saxony weren’t part of the medieval Duchy of Saxony that followed, despite eventually taking the name (via “Electorate of Saxony” and then “Kingdom of Saxony”).
But anyway the “Anglo-Saxons” were probably really from Denmark and northern Schleswig-Holstein. The southern parts of their region might’ve been called Saxony at the time.
(I’m mostly posting this because I wanted to figure it all out)
Nobody is better. All languages do this to an extent. The Germanized city names especially in Northern Italy also stem from the fact that they used to be under Austrian control and they claim to speak German too.
Exactly. In Spanish, we have some ‘curious’ names for Germany and its states and cities. «Alemania» is the name of the country. «Renania-Palatinado» is Rheinland-Pfalz, Bayern got turned into «Baviera». «Colonia» is Köln, «Friburgo de Brisgovia» is Freiburg im Brisgau…
Austrians are just as able as BRD Germans to pronounce something like Milano, though.
You are assuming that the name as it is in Italian today has always been the same and it isn’t. Both Milano and Mailand are linguistic descendants of the name whichever people who first set up shop there spoke and decided to call the place. And that wasn’t anywhere close to modern Italian. They are both valid.
English ditches the o and has Florence on the books as well. Geographical names follow no logical rule. Most are just historical accidents, some historical crimes. This is more in the former category if you ask me.
Cologne, Munich, Brussels, Naples, The Hague … It’s everywhere.
I say we should go the Belarus route.
I look forward to renaming virtually everything in the Americas.
It wouldn’t really make sense to use different names than the current locals, though.
Who decided that it wouldn’t make sense?
You’re entitled to your incredibly ridiculous opinion.
Plus the true downgrade of Firenze to “Florence.”
Naples? Rome? Venice?
Those have more straightforward transliterations. But where the fuck does the L even come from?
Firenze was also the art and culture capitol of Europe for quite some time, so this isn’t some backwater town. It’s like the CCP telling people that New York is now officially called “Not Yoodle” in Chinese.
Florence comes from the Latin name of the city Florentia.
TIL
Czech: Neapol, Řím, Benátky.
Napoli. Roma. Venezia.
Do you perhaps mean “Florenz”?
No, in Italian, the city’s name is Firenze, which is much cooler IMO than nasal EN/DE Florence. Which, TIL, is from the Latin Florenti, as in “Florentine” as the ajdectival form.
What’s “Florenz”?
It’s Firenze in German.
Florenz, but yeah
IIRC Germany is named weirdly different around the world with names stemming from several roots.
Deutschland, Germany, Alemania, Nemezky, Saksa,…
Well Germans kind of were the Holy Roman Empire so in my books they can call those cities in italy what ever they fancy.
Having to learn new names for countries and cities is one of the worst parts of learning a second language.
lol it’s not by far
I speak two languages so yes, i’d say it really is. Some spanish place names are completely different than english ones and trying to dredge them up in conversation can be tedious if you don’t often use them.
But keep downvoting people you mildly disagree with. It really improves the platform and discussions. /s
Cool beans, I speak three languages and there’s no way you believe that some arbitrary vocabulary is harder than grammatical finesses, or some outrageous slang, or idioms/shibboleths.
Maybe you aren’t “speaking” that second language as well as you think?
Also, imagine caring about votes 😂 it’s not a disagree button, Brudi. But your high effort post probably deserves all the updoots.
“/s” 🤣 holy Moses, Reddit is leaking hard.
I’m glad accounts like yours out themselves so early after joining. Makes you easier to block.
Keep questioning peoples lived experiences. I’m sure you’ll make lots of friends that way. /s
I won’t be responding as i’ve blocked you.
Those are good points but Torino as Turin is complicated, some folks there still call it that in dialect etc. and historically, run by the Lombards and all that.
English is terrible at this, Venice is Venezia, if you can say pizza you can say that.
“Venedig” in German, even though they literally use (almost) the same sound for z as Italian …
I don’t know about that. Even if Germans are not shy of pronouncing letters wrongly (using V as F for instance), the P in Nippon makes no sense in German. It would have to be spelled with an H to make the right sound.
OK. German has an H (same as English, which makes it weird that it’s written with a P in the first place) and isn’t shy about spelling reforms, either.