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All you need to know is that, whatever you pick, you made the wrong choice and you will be roasted if you ever attempt to explain your decision.
Unless you use Arch, then you have chosen correctly.
This is like people, they are all different, so annoying! /s
I have to choose people i like?? Gaaah.
Around 500 flavors.
There are four main flavors
- Debian - For every day
- Red Hat - For work
- Arch - To tinker and learn
- OpenSuSe - To German
Also the additional flavours of
- Nix – whole OS determined by 1 file
- Gentoo – Arch but it takes longer
- Alpine – small and simple
- Slackware? – for old people
- Void?? – like Alpine but not small and simple
- LFS??? – like Gentoo but takes longer
- AOSP??? – not even really Linux anymore
also …
Debian - for when you want to wait two years
Definitely a brick of an operating system, boring as hell, but reliable and has been that way since ancient times.
Alternatively: when you want to not worry for two years.
The popular Debian based distros are up to date. That said, core Debian stable is indeed boring, but sometimes boring and stable is what you need.
yeah no hate for debian here
Its not even stable though😭 I spent 6 hours fixing my networking on my debian 13 stable server, after it randomly got 90 percent packet loss with no explanation
What was the issue?
I use Kubuntu LTS for that exact reason. Even though I am an experienced Linux user for over 20 years, I don’t have time to fuck around fixing my PC when something goes wrong. It’s stable and it works. And, yes I game on my PC and it’s doing just fine with my 3070 RTX NVidia card with the drivers provided by Ubuntu through their 3rd party driver system. No hassle, no crashing, just me using my computer doing the things I need to do.
KDE plasma gas been braindead easy on my ancient laptop as a first time linuxer! My next experiment is gonna be Bazzite on my desktop. Kinda seems like I’ll find the differences as I try new distros, then be better suited to form a preference for myself. Then eventually I’ll be on Arch btw…
That is a kinda sane order tho
Normally people just install Ubuntu or Linux Mint (because it has Linux in the name or something) and use modded GNOME or some weird niche desktop, thinking this is peak Linux experience.
(Needed to do Mint tech support over the holidays again… yeah it is strange)
I’d expect that most brand new users install Ubuntu or Linux Mint because of how often they are recommended.
Linux Mint is basically Ubuntu with Canonical/Snaps removed and some added polish. The default DE is laid out like windows before 11 (“start” button in lower left) which seems to make sense for new users.
I’m a knowledgable enough user, being a developer on embedded linux products, and I also stuck with Mint long term. It’s still a Linux system that I actually control. The fact that it was very user friendly and full featured it off the box doesn’t take away from that. It just meant that it wasn’t the learning experience you’d get with something like Arch.
Proceeds to use it exclusively for browsing the web.
see heres the problem, youre doing that in the wrong order.
first figure out your DE/WM preference, THEN choose a package manager with the repos that will best support that for your use case and update cycle preferences. (the distro)
It depends.
ok true
How many are there?
It depends.
See, that’s not helpful. The right answer is to direct someone to this GitHub project:
https://github.com/FabioLolix/LinuxTimeline
The releases page contains a 3420x12488 PNG to provide a simple and concise answer.
That picture is also hosted on Wikimedia:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/Linux_Distribution_Timeline.svg
Edit: just pasting the link now, making it into an embedded picture lagged and crashed voyager??
“Simple and concise”
Doesn’t even have CachyOS. Smh
i am not religious, but oh god…
I can see my OS from here!
I see the one I like! :-)
I really wish people could get together and just agree to recommend like 1 of 3 distros to people and put their personal y preferences aside.
Once people actually switch and use Linux for some time they can figure out what is actually best for them.
I say it should be,
Mint Kubuntu Maybe bazzite (I’ve never used it, but I’ve heard it’s popular for gaming.)
We had that consensus with Ubuntu for 15 years but haters had to hate so now we’re here. 😁
Ubuntu basically used to be what Mint is now (although Gnome sucks). Mint shouldn’t need to exist.
I am convinced that Ubuntu/GNOME is the main reason that Linux onboarding has taken so long and has been so slow.
I never knew KDE Plasma and other Windows-like desktop environments existed until Valve released the Steam Deck.
Kububtu (Ubuntu with KDE) has been an official Ubuntu flavour almost aince the beginning. During the Ubuntu consensus years, it was being promoted along with Ubuntu for every release.
It’s totally cool you learned about it from Valve but that doesn’t mean people were oblivious about KDE in the 2000s and 2010s.
Sure, but it hasn’t been well promoted by the community or by Canonical. Otherwise I would have seen it a long time ago.
Respectfully disagree. Have been following many Ubuntu releases over the years, Ubuntu blogs and news sites, and the official flavours have always been showcased, talked about, major features discussed and so on.
Also switching between flavours has always been trivial even post-installation. I used to test-drive KDE on Ubuntu installs and GNOME on Kubuntu installs in the 2000s and early 2010s.
Do you seriously expect new users to keep up with Ubuntu blogs, news sites and stuff like that? New users don’t even know what a flavor is. New users are not that involved in the eco system. Just because you have seen it that doesn’t mean it’s widely known.
This right here is one of the problems with old Linux users trying to recruit new users.
that’s because even people who are using ubuntu for 15 years and don’t really care that much are finally fed up and starting to look for an alternative.
“get these security updates with ubuntu pro” is the ultimate wake-up call…
Ah yes, the 10-year corporate-grade security support for communiry packages provided for free to small users. I use it on the machines I haven’t converted to Debian yet. It’s great.
You’re not wrong.
But, what about Snaps? What’s your take on these?
In my opinion Snaps are superior in terms of design and functionality than Flatpak. In practice, there are many poorly implemented snap packages. There were annoying bugs with the snap system for a long time like the update/close app notification. There’s not enough features for holding snap updates. And there isn’t built-in support for multiple repos. I like Snap but there have been legitimate problems with it and the mindahare has shifted to Flatpak, which albeit inferior, fullfils most of the Snap use cases. In the end the social infrastructure is more important than the exact technology and that’s much stronger around Flatpak. I use both on Ubuntu and only Flatpak on Debian.
If it mattets, I’m a senior software guy who’s used Linux professionally for many use cases for 10-15 years. Been personally using Ubuntu since 2005. Am switching new machines to Debian because Canonical is planning to do IPO and enshittifaction would inevitably follow. Not because of Snap. 😅
Not op, but I use Ubuntu because I will need a job at some point and want to use something relatively marketable.
Snaps are annoying, I tried to use them once for something and then have basically ignored them. They aren’t hugely core as something in windows would be.
I still have to do the switch, have been keeping track of these topics a bit.
Right now, the shortlist I would make is:
- Bazzite (Easy to setup, preconfigured for gaming)
- Fedora (Good allrounder, well developed)
- Arch (For those who want full control and love to tinker)
I like Fedora plasma the best personally, but the gnome version requires configuration to just get a minimize button and it also needs rpm fusion configured and codecs installed.
That is why I don’t like to recommend this for a newbie.
I can’t recommend to a newcomer a distro that can potentially break or introduce bugs or vulnerabilities with software that’s too bleeding edge. That’s why I’ll never recommend Arch or even Fedora. And Bazzite is really too gaming focused and you can only install software through flatpaks. (I know there’s other ways, but we’re talking about newbies here. We need to keep it simple.)
Only thing that matters is that you realize, none of it’s permanent. Getting your feet wet for a few weeks working from a live USB is okay too. Go as fast or as slow as you want. People get stuck on “The Paradox of Choice”.
Fucking it up is part of the fun
Upvote for Fedora.
Downvote for Fedora
kubuntu and mint are basically the same, spare the desktop environment. I think something like Fedora, EndeavorOS plus CachyOS and Bazzite for gamers sounds more fair of a possible suggestion list. Unlike Mint, all of those have comprehensive wiki, Fedora and Bazzite for those preferring fixed release, and EOS and CachyOS for rolling-release.
Bazzite for gamers is a good suggestion, as is Fedora. I’ve found Fedora to be quite usable even if someone doesn’t know that much about tech. The setup is clear, the appstore doesn’t require any CLI or effort to install most apps someone will need, games can still run on it easily with basically no user modifications if you’re using Steam with Proton, the UI is easy to navigate for most former Windows or Mac users, etc.
Felt way better than Mint in terms of the out of box experience and just general design and usability imo.
I believe that people recommending Mint do so only because they once heard that it was a noob distro themselves. When i first switched to linux, i had lots of issues with it. I especially struggled with troubleshooting. EndeavorOS was my second, and it was perfect for me until i discovered CachyOS.
I believe that people recommending Mint do so only because they once heard that it was a noob distro themselves.
100% agreed. I tried it early on because I was told it was good for beginners, and stopped using it quite fast because it didn’t feel much like a “noob distro” at all aside from a few things being a little more user friendly right at the very start of the experience.
When it comes to distros, having something like a central website or something that contains up to date info on beginner friendly distrks probably wouldn’t be the worst. Like distrowatch, but specifically just for distros like Mint or Zorin or MX or whatever.
The problem is we’d need to get people on board and find a way to advertise it. The advertising might be the hard part since I hazard a guess that there’s nobody on the Fediverse that is big enough to reach the normal computer users. Just us fediversians or whatever we’re calling ourselves.
I only recommend what I’m willing to support. Can’t recommend distros I would never use.
JFCLM
Just Fucking Choose Linux Mint.
lol no. Completely failed to run 90% of my games and had audio popping no matter what I did with pulsewire or whatever. If a noob encounters that they’re never using Linux again.
how long ago was that? what GPU? what kernel version?
is something odd
mint doesnt even offer kde, i dont see the point.
cant use gnome after realizing all the terrible usability choices/lack of customizability options is deliberate, people really will powertrip/gatekeep the weirdest shit
I think Zorin OS did a really good job at customizing Gnome to make it the way it should have been. As for limiting customizeability, I don’t think that’s necessarily bad. Sometimes I get overwhelmed by KDE’s customization options. Vanilla Gnome has too little. Zorin’s desktop is just right.
But that’s my opinion.
yeah i dont hate gnome users or even if i have to use gnome, but i do hate the conceptual approach to functionality they take, as you mention.
They can try Kubuntu (or whatever) live whenever they’re ready. Beginners just need something that works with minimal configuration.
kubuntu is trash. you have to wait forever for kde updates and not everyone wants to use ubuntu / derivatives. it just seems like everyone is so stubborn and just says mint. tons of distros “just work” out of the box with minimal configuration, even some based on arch.
really i only have one opinion here that im strong on, and its that i feel cinnamon is a waste of time for many (new people).
kubuntu is trash
That’s like… your opinion, man.
true
If you know what KDE is you can make an informed choice. Mint is the recommendation for people who just want something easy to get started with.
this touches on my point exactly. i find that due to the “over recommendation” of mint/cinnamon, that many new people will inevitably “waste time” with cinnamon. this is a feeling i have that frustrates me, is all. KDE is exactly as easy to get started with as is cinnamon.
anyway cheers :)
Exactly. I never see people actually liking Cinnamon as a DE, but everyone keeps recommending Mint. It’s so frustrating, and perplexing.
Cinnamon >>>>>>> KDE, you can install KDE regardless, but cinnamon is plainly better IMO.
Why is it better? KDE has more features and first-class Wayland support. If I wanted an X11 DE, I would choose XFCE because of its general clean code and performance.
it comes to personal preference i guess, but i find KDE clunky at times and not that ergonomic, even when you customize it a bit, like adding centre spaces to put things in the panels.
Cinnamon feels polished and relatively simple while still being highly customizable.
You’re not wrong. I think there’s definitely room for some improvements.
And sometimes too many customizations can become confusing. I tend to keep everything vanilla to avoid things breaking, except for a few things. I installed a Win 10 theme and even a Win 10 style Tile start menu because I love the concept so much.
I know it’s controversial in a Linux community, but I absolutely LOVED the Windows 10 ergonomics. Square, flat, predictable, and your eyes can quickly pick up the necessary information and you can navigate faster with a mouse. Plus with the Powertoys that added the fancy zones feature, that was perfect. I get all of this in KDE.
is reasonable to say, that W10, specially years ago, was one of the good windows, specially with a debloater.
there were a lot of shit in the middle but yeah, Cinnamon feels like “what if the windows desktop was made with love and passion”.
wdym by ergonomic in this context, may i ask?
you get to develop muscle memory faster, configurations are easier to find, and things start simple and become complex when you need them to get complex instead of always be kinda complex.
Also, I hate dolphin, it is quite bad, you can’t open files with sudo directly, you have to navigate trough various menus to find the button for that, is also harder to read IMO.
i think i explained it poorly, but i mean you get the hang of things faster, and usually stuff is where is more convenient for for them to be.
I don’t hate KDE, if Cinnamon wasn’t a thing, i would go for it, but as things stands now, I prefer cinnamon.
hey right on, appreciate the thoughtful reply. i cant say i share the same experience, but now i understand where youre coming from.
side note, im new(ish) to lemmy and im really appreciating the quality of the takes im seeing on here. refreshing feeling, so cheers to adding to that.
better how?
Nah. I’m a gamer and need something with more up to date packages. I can’t rely on Debian / Ubuntu base.
Fedora and Arch base are my go to.
If you know what you want then you’re not the person depicted in this comic.
I’ve been gaming on Debian (granted, with the backports kernel). What am I missing? Everything works and I’ve had zero issues.
The present-day Linux kernel tree (not the Debian guys) actually has a target to build a Debian kernel package (
make bindeb-pkg) straight out of git if you want, so you can pretty readily get a packaged kernel out of the Linux kernel git repo, as long as you can come up with a viable build config for it (probably starting from a recent Debian kernel’s config). I have run off Debian-packaged kernels built that way before, if you want to play on the really bleeding edge.Yep, been gaming on Ubuntu for decades. Zero issue. Occasionally have to do a thing, but it’s Linux, so you know; everything is always do able.
maybe youve always been using 2 year or older hardware *shrug
I’m a gamer too and i’m not sure what is about that, everything seems fine on the 6.12 kernel LMDE is on.
Ditto. Also a gamer on Linux Mint and never once had a problem.
bazzite?
I’m using Kubuntu LTS and I’m gaming just fine.
Bazzite is good now and you don’t have to spend hours trying to install Nvidia drivers
in linux mint there is a buton, that says “driver installer” you press on it, select what version (choose the recommended one) then press install.
I did not know that! I was thinking about my issues on Debian and assumed Mint had a similar process
if you use LMDE is still a bit easier because the sources are already added, “sudo apt install nvidia-driver” and then use the envy control program to configure it properly.
Just pick the yummiest option each time.
Mint.
Cinnamon.
That adds the “which windowing system do you want to use” question and under the “Xorg” option, a “do you want to use a window manager without a desktop environment”, and then under “yes”, for the “Which window manager” question, you get Ratpoison as one of the options.
sure its fine and will do. but …millions of people waste time on cinnamon bc of this logic.
I appreciate the effort put into this but if answering yes to “are you new to Linux?” leads to the follow up question “apt or rpm?” then there’s a problem.
Exactly. One is a package format and/or local package utility, and the other is a frontend to do downloads and updates for that local package utility.
Should be “rpm or dpkg” — assuming that we’re excluding the other options — and then if someone chooses RPM, you can start talking about the frontend:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPM_Package_Manager
Front ends
Several front-ends to RPM ease the process of obtaining and installing RPMs from repositories and help in resolving their dependencies. These include:
- yum used in Fedora Linux, CentOS 5 and above, Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5 and above, Scientific Linux, Yellow Dog Linux and Oracle Linux
- DNF, introduced in Fedora Linux 18 (default since 22), Red Hat Enterprise Linux 8, AlmaLinux 8, and CentOS Linux 8.
- up2date used in Red Hat Enterprise Linux, CentOS 3 and 4, and Oracle Linux
- Zypper used in Mer (and thus Sailfish OS), MeeGo,[16] openSUSE and SUSE Linux Enterprise
- urpmi used in Mandriva Linux, ROSA Linux and Mageia
- apt-rpm, a port of Debian’s Advanced Packaging Tool (APT) used in Ark Linux,[17] PCLinuxOS and ALT Linux
- Smart Package Manager, used in Unity Linux, available for many distributions including Fedora Linux.
- rpmquery, a command-line utility available in (for example) Red Hat Enterprise Linux
- libzypp, for Sailfish OS
Then for
dpkg, you can choose from amongaptitude,apt,apt-get/apt-query/etc, graphical frontend options likesynapticthat one may want to use in parallel with the TUI-based frontends, etc.You’ve completely missed the point. If you’re new to Linux you have no clue what those are and shouldn’t care.
Sure, but my point was that someone new to Linux can only answer that question with “what the fuck are those”
I hate myself but I don’t Gentoo hate myself.
I judge distro chooser flowcharts by whether they correctly point me to Slackware. These both pass.
gentoo for small computing power?? no offense, but that’s bonkers 😹
Lots of pro-Ubuntu propaganda in those floe charts. At this point, Ubuntu of any flavor shouldn’t be recommended to anyone. There are always better alternatives.
Redox is UNIX-like, not a BSD flavor. The kernel, init, userland, etc. aren’t BSD related.
These are magnificent. Now I can turn off my brain lol.
do you want swap?
Multiple partitions or single. LLVM-managed or not. Block-level encrypted partitions or not. Do you want your swap on a dedicated partition, as a swap file, and do you want it to be encrypted?
If you decide that you want a multiple-partition installation and then let the installer do the partitioning, Debian’s installer still does a 100 MB
/bootpartition, which is woefully inadequate for present-day kernels as Debian packages them. 1 GB, maybe.
Choose one at random from those with easy installation. Use it for a week. If you like it, stick with it. If it’s frustrating as heck, try another distro. Your skills picked up from the first one will very likely transfer over. As you narrow down your experience with what’s frustrating you, you can pinpoint what things you like and which you don’t and settle on the perfect distro for you.
There is absolutely NO way to know that before you get your hands dirty and see what these options are and their quirks.
“The first place to direct new users was to Linux From Scratch, so that they could determine whether they wanted to use a Linux distribution at all, or a more freeform approach.”
