Oh man, don’t read the comments, sad to see the smartasses saying “report back when you install windows again in two months” while getting utterly fucked by Windows.
I mean, I understand being resistant to change but being a fanatic of Windows or anything for that matter just because that’s all you know is really ignorant, it’s not a sports team for fucks sake, of course it’s not easy switching and you will have problems just dont be afraid to ask and read the error warning.
Rant over
I use Windows for work and I miss Win10, I don’t like it but I’m aware that’s currently the target of most Consumer SW for good reason but that reason is starting to break (say it with me! BAD BUSINESS DECISIONS!!!).
Happy to see Linux getting mainstream, not all comments are bad but I the trolls got me.
It kind of reminds me of the whole Rust situation in a way. The evangelists were so heavy-handed that an active counter-movement developed, and with the adoption being wider the fanatics are heard less and what remains is their counterpart. We certainly aren’t quite there yet with the Linux discussion, but it seems to be what we’re heading towards.
I will say, I have very low hopes for this person sticking with Linux because they made a big deal about switching to it.
They’re going to feel like they need to continuously justify their decision as they’re learning, which will magnify the demoralization of every problem he encounters.
Well, if you honestly think about it, Linux has always been tried by many of people that eventually went back to Windows because something wasn’t entirely straightforward. Don’t get me wrong, I love Linux, but I don’t blame people for thinking that. Trying Linux is very different than sticking to it. Linux is amazing OS for people who put at least some effort into learning it, but like it or not, it can be absolute pain for those expecting things to just work without any interest on why they experiencing issues. Given how many sets of hardware and peripherals people have, weird quirks, bugs and required workarounds aren’t unheard of. Maybe it’s just something very simple to fix for an advanced user, but normies will just run away.
Maybe if we kept speaking of Free Software philosophy, people would not have these misplaced expectations they’ve been conditioned to as dis-empowered consumer cash-cows of the monopoly.
As someone who tried it for a few months then switched back for several years before returning permanently two years ago: Linux has long had the problem that it’s completely ready for different people at different times.
In 2017 it was in pretty good shape if you weren’t a gamer, didn’t mind tinkering a fair bit, were prepared to learn a completely different two ways of installing software, and didn’t rely on proprietary apps (I couldn’t get Netflix to work). I was only ready for the tinkering. Also I’d used Ubuntu and gnome just added more changes.
Five years later a lot had changed. I wasn’t using Netflix (especially not in the app) for one. But Proton had come around and made gaming just work. My wifi drivers just worked unlike before. Years of mobile app stores and a few months of lemmy had prepared me for repos, even though it still took some getting the hang of to switch from just downloading and double clicking an exe file. But also the software options are increasingly available rather than having to learn to use old school wine while in the middle of a massive change. I still think I should switch away from garuda at some point as I dislike some of the choices it made (no flatpak support for one), but I love aspects of it. And all throughout that time that Linux was getting more accessible to someone like me who isn’t a coder, but was tech nerd curious, windows was increasingly getting in my way and becoming anti user.
I think adoption will continue to increase as Linux continues to get easier for more people
Garuda was a great distro for a hot minute. It was right where it needed to be to access Steam on Linux right as the Steam Deck came to market. It got all the performance benefits of Proton immediately as other distros had to play catch-up.
It still is a great distro, but it’s lost some is that exclusivity.
I love the eyebleed aesthetic of it I’m just now skilled enough to get that on something like fedora or Debian. And these days what I want is for more things to work easier which puts me out of the arch sphere. If garuda hadn’t committed hard to the aur I’d probably love it but the aur does everything 3 ways 1 of which may still be maintained and it leaves you just wanting the actively maintained flatpak.
Like I don’t hate it, it was the right distro at the time for me as it was noob friendly and had plasma 6 when few others did. But I don’t need the bleeding edge anymore.
I appreciate that arch’s package manager is a bit of a monster - but that’s also what made it the prefect choice for me.
In the immediate aftermath of the release of the Steam Deck, there was many hot weeks where arch’s ability to turn on a dime was exactly the tool needed to run all the new things valve released (fast development to deploy is aur’s specialty). This advantage was destined to not last more than 6 months, as that’s the release cycle for other distros.
I must say on mine laptop it took fewer tries to have Linux mint working. When I was installing the Nvidia drivers I was losing the WiFi ones and couldn’t do anything to fix without internet there
So after some reinstalls I learned I need to update mint first, than do the Nvidia update, this did the trick for me.
it can be absolute pain for those expecting things to just work without any interest on why they experiencing issues.
I think that describes computers.
Windows does the same thing, only worse because it is harder to trouble shoot, and harder to fix if you find yourself at the point where a reinstall is the only way out.
I am dealing with a laptop like that now for someone else, and it would be simple if it was linux, but of course its a pain in the ass because its windows.
it can be absolute pain for those expecting things to just work
Which is like 95% of people.
Imagine if cars worked this way. Imagine you needed to be a mechanic to operate your vehicle. To start and drive your car, you first have to do automotive work, and know how to do automotive work.
A lot less people would drive themselves. A lot more Ubers.
Maybe eventually people will increasingly realize the folly of this expecation.
Maybe even “AI” atrophying their skills will wake people up to this problem, right through to no longer wanting to be consumer cash-cows of the monopolistic corporation.
Convenience, so sweet, in the short term. Maybe eventually people will learn, the sweeter the juice, the more dangerous the pitcher plant. And then people will learn to drive. And to be able to mend their own. And stop buying the ones that make it difficult to mend. Seeing the folly of such dis-empowerment.
Wait what? Hahaha, it is only a problem when things don’t work. Same with cars, as in your analogy, if your car is not starting your are taking that Uber…
You don’t need to be a mechanic, but you need to know the lights in your panel, know how to check the oil, know how to change a tire, etc… For when things go wrong and maybe you can repair what’s needed yourself.
Bringing it back to Linux, you can try Linux directly from a USB without installing anything and most of the time it just works. If gradma is only reading the news or watching youtube she doesn’t care what OS it is.
I’ve been daily driving Linux for about 3 years now and one major tip I can give is to avoid using non Linux apps as far as possible. When I started with Linux I also tried to get windows apps running on Linux, but this, at least as far as I remember, never worked the way I wanted ans always caused more troubles. Currently I’m at a point where I dont even know when I used plain wine (I am not counting proton) the last time. It has been 2 years at least. I Am using native Linux apps for everything I do. Much less trouble shooting, no need to learn wine additionally to the command line and much less prone to breaking because of an update.
Yup. I’ve been daily driving linux for about 22 years now, and seeking solutions to what I want to accomplish was[/is] a much more enjoyable exploration than trying to wrestle the square peg in the star shaped hole.
It’s the free software (free as in freedom), not the “can I get this proprietary software for windows to run in linux”. Best to understand this and make that leap. Then life gets so much better. The more of your software that affords you (and everybody) the 4 freedoms of free software, the better.
Well of course, there’s probably other Windows stuff they are also using, considering how much they aren’t even trying to ship for something like Ubuntu, which would be super easy otherwise.
I can only imagine how big of a push Autodesk can easily put towards Linux. That would easily make the current rise to 5% be nothing in comparison. Maybe MS is paying them too, to keep them together.
Of course it might also just be that MS makes it easier for them to setup a DRM (Digital Rights Management) as compared to Linux, not that it matters considering how much they have been pirated.
Then there was this person who was not using Linux because of the CAD software he wanted to use and when I asked what exactly it was, he said, “KiCad”[1].
it’s available in Arch and Debian official repositories ↩︎
Yeah, so you see, they just don’t know that the stuff is available.
They are also the types to download from stuff like Softonic/MegaUpload etc. when the official website has downloads available, so even if the website were to advertise Linux availability, they would never end up seeing it.
I mean, I understand being resistant to change but being a fanatic of Windows or anything for that matter just because that’s all you know is really ignorant
I’m suspecting around 80% of the people who switched to Linux after Win11/AI stuff, will switch back within 6 months.
I don’t see them as trolls. I’ve been on ZorinOS for about a year now. I hate it because I don’t know how to do anything, but I’m not smart enough to learn terminal.
Flatpaks are the answer to installation. But any problem I have, I google, and every result starts the same way.
"Ok, Step 1, open terminal
NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
I have a 100% rate of those solutions not working for me. And the reason is simple. Those solutions assume you know how to use linux. So when you copy and paste their terminal commands, and your terminal responds with error: dependancies not found, YOU know how to fix that error and it works for you. But for most regular people, thats the end of that. Problem not solved. Problem remains a problem FOREVER.
No, seriously. I have a usb recovery stick that allows me to backup/restore my hard drive exactly how it is. Anytime I have to use terminal I ALWAYS make a backup of my hard drive first. Which takes 4 hours. And the reason for that is, when I inevitably fuck something up in terminal, and the whole OS crashes, and refuses to boot, I have a backup. It takes nearly 20 hours to restore the image, but it works. But whatever problem I was trying to solve remains.
Imagine if that were your linux experience. Windows spies on you. They have enshitification out the ass. But it works for the masses without technical knowledge.
The other issue is that businesses use windows. So most people are firmiliar with windows. So all the popular programs are on windows. Linux has a way to emulate windows programs, but its hard to get working, and sometimes just DOESN’T work.
If linux had every single program windows has, 100% as a flatpak, it would do wonders for install rate…for about a year.
Once people install the programs, they’ll at some point run into an issue. On windows you solve the problem 99% of the time by restarting. On linux, that hasn’t fixed any of my problems once.
These people aren’t trolls. They just have a different opinion than you from a different perspective.
Next time you have an issue in linux, any issue, regardless of how small, I want you to turn off your computer for 4 hours. Then turn it back on for 5 minutes. Then off again for 20 hours. Don’t solve the issue. I know YOU can solve the issue in 30 seconds, but don’t. After the 24 hours no computer use, just live with the problem for the rest of your life.
Yeah, that doesn’t sound fun, does it? Sounds like a reason to have a sour experience. Suddenly they don’t seem like trolls.
That command terminal thing is so real. When it works, its magic. When it doesn’t work, you just messed with forces you didn’t understand and are already forced into chancing a repair and maybe make the problem worst or getting back to the original one! (Very discouraging if you are just trying to get work done, especially for non techies)
I think the problem with linux users is that they can’t imagine that the appeal for most people who want to use an OS is to make something happen in the “real world” with a top level piece of software, like you want to draw a cute cat on the screen not learn how the compositor draws the pixels to multiple different screen resolutions WHEN the monitor model is a use case supported scenario.
The objective is to use the computer as a tool NOW for a SPECIFIC thing without diving into the inner guts of the machine for some people, and that’s honestly fine.
Some examples of what you’ve been unable to accomplish might add clarity.
but I’m not smart enough to learn terminal
Bull. Shit. You’re just not used to it and, even without picking up any knowledge of shell scripting, you’re only a man somecommand away from understanding what specific command line programs do. somecommand --flag--another-flag /home/me/thing typically isn’t much different from opening some GUI app on Windows, ticking two boxes, opening the file picker and selecting C:\users\me\thing then clicking a button.
All that said, now we really need examples because there’s probably no need for you to be messing with the terminal to begin with. At least not if you aren’t doing anything outside basic computing like web browsing, chat, productivity tasks and such. So what are you trying to do in the terminal that the OS failed to provide a GUI for?
Flatpaks… NOOOOO…
I haven’t used Zorin but flatpaks are enabled by default if I understand. Yes, you can install them via the command line but it looks like you could just open the built in software center and search for whatever it is you want. The only exception I can imagine is if you’re trying to install from a source other than whatever Zorin uses by default (Flathub, I would guess).
dependencies not found
With Flatpaks? Wat? With some other command? Context, please.
Anytime I have to use terminal I ALWAYS make a backup
You’re competent enough to image and restore your drive but not stay out of trouble in your OS? You presumably had to learn whatever software, and the underlying concepts, you’re using for that. Clonezilla, Rescuezilla, Macrium Reflect, etc all exist to make it easier but you’ve gotta know what an “image” is, what it means create it and subsequently write it onto a drive. How to identify the correct drive so you’re not wiping out something unintentionally.
So, are you not spending even a few minutes to check if the code snippets you’re pasting are applicable to your specific distribution? At least skimming the man page for the commands you try to run? Are you assuming “it’s all just Linux, right?” and that there isn’t nuance between distributions? Running shell commands you don’t understand is like running whatever backup solution you’re using without understanding it - just blindly clicking buttons and maybe you get a backup or maybe you format a drive and lose decades of family photos, your research paper draft, and whatever else. And if a fuckup costs me a literal day of my life in restoration time, I’m making it a point to use that time to figure out why so I hopefully don’t repeat the process in the future.
There’s little substance in your complaints and I’m left just so genuinely confused. In my head I’m imagining a walking talking XY Problem. Some specific examples of what you were trying to achieve or the snippets you were blindly pasting might shed some light but, left to guess, your actions sound akin to gamer kids running random batch scripts claiming to tweak power settings or whatever else in order to eke out a few extra FPS. Windows isn’t going to protect anyone who treats it the same way you have seemingly treated Linux.
You can learn how to use the terminal. You have demonstrated the ability to compose a coherent sentence, you can learn.
Every terminal command is a program. Typing a “command” into the terminal is just typing the name of a program. If you type firefox, Firefox launches. If it’s installed, we’ll come back to that. Anything else in the “command” like if you see letters or words after a dash, something like ls -a is an option, it’s like ticking a box in a dialog window, but on the front end. I recommend spinning up a virtual machine or getting a Raspberry Pi or something you don’t care about, and following some tutorials. Learn how to move around the file system, install software, run some utilities.
About that “if it’s installed” part. You mentioned you run Zorin. Zorin is what I call a Trendy Distro Of The Month. I’ve been using Linux for twelve years now, this hasn’t stopped yet. There’s the mainstays like Debian, Ubuntu, Mint, Red Hat, Fedora, Arch, OpenSuSe, there’s the niche special purpose things like Kali and TAILS and Puppy and Tiny, and then there’s the hundreds of quadrillions of “We took Ubuntu, put Steam on it by default, swapped SystemD for whatever.rs, swapped Firefox for Chromium and did a half-assed job at theming and extending Gnome that’s going to break every time they push an update.”
PeppermintOS, ZorinOS, ElementaryOS, Pop!_OS, Garuda, Nobara, Endeavor, Manjaro, Bazzite, Cachy, hundreds of others, are basically the same software in some slightly mutated permutation that most veterans aren’t familiar with. Invariably the veterans first hear about them from noobs who went looking for a distro that is “good for gaming” or “easy for beginners” and because SEO they find the Trendy Distro Of The Month. Which always offers some little gimmick that ultimately doesn’t matter. The process of getting a Bazzite ISO is taking a little Cosmo quiz about what you’re going to do, but then the installer is really borked compared to Mint or even Fedora.
A lot of instructions are written with Ubuntu or sometimes Fedora in mind, and then you pick a distro that differs from those, and then bitch that instructions don’t work.
Also, you need to upgrade your backup hardware if it takes 20 hours to image a drive. That should take minutes.
By the way you write I now you are smart enough to learn the terminal and you should not fear it, since you are starting with linux it is expected that you will make errors and that is ok. Linux is yours to do and undo.
One of the reasons why Mac was able to take some market share from Windows is that all their computers are the same regardless of the needs of the user, so trouble shooting is easy as all are the same.
Your full backup strategy is kinda overkill, also tells me your are more than capable of learning the terminal btw, you should just back up the critical data then reinstalling/fixing your installation will take the same amount of time for backing your full drive. There are forums to ask for help in linux and there are a lot of us that try to help brother/sister in need. Also timeshift might be easier faster than the usb thing.
I do not know Zorin OS but there are other flavors of Linux that might be better for you, maybe something atomic like Bazzite which is immutable so you can’t fuck it up. One distro does not represent all.
About your Windows for the masses comment, every one of us linux users started with Windows because that’s what the computers came with, Microsoft paid a lot for that to happen, and the users got used to Windows and got used to its quirks. That is in itself technical knowledge, so there are no computer users “without technical knowledge”
About the restarting the computer to solve issues comment. That’s just not true, my work Windows computer started blue screening with no reason, no amount of restarting fixed that.
Now to the trolls, they are trolls, your are giving a proper argument for your use case and I respect you for that because you are giving linux a try. The trolls im referring to are the ones shitting on linux without even trying it or just calling people names because they dare to try something different.
About your comment for living with issues with my setup forever as a non-techy user reminded me of the 10s of toolbars my aunt had in her computer and complained when I removed them because she had gotten so used to them.
Do not fear the terminal even Windows was once DOS, install and try all the distros you can they are FREE, there are a lot of flavors for different needs.
Can’t speak for you, but trouble shooting, even if you dont know what you do, is at least in my experience way easier. A terminal command does the exact same thing, no matter on which system (OK, there are differences like package manager, but you get what mean) and no matter when. On Windows you get 10 screenshots of a UI that has changed 10 times since the creation of the guide and no or a completely useless error message if something does not work.
As long as you are not trying to debug big ass problems that affect core components of your system (bootloader, drives, stuff with the kernel) it is in fact quite hard to fuck up your entire system (it can happen with Updates on Arch, but this is usually quite rare). As long as you are not touching anything else except your /home directory you should not be able to break your entire system. Also if you are still scared of losing date, there are ways of creating system snapshots (backups). Backing up your home directory is enough because this means, that all the files you use daily are backed up.
Since you mentioned dependencies, here’s a quick answer to what this means. There are a shit ton of programming libraries. A library has the use case, that a developer does not have to reinvent the wheel every time they want to do something. You dont want to write a complete library for GUIs every time, but instead use standardised well maintained and documented libraries. Since Programms use these they depend on the user having this library (or alternatively Programms) installed. This is called a dependency. In most cases dependency errors mean, that an expected library is not installed. In this case simply copy the name, and search “install name Linux (or your Distros)” and you are almost guaranteed to find a tutorial for installing it.
My best tip is, that you take the time to learn the basics of Linux. What is a package manager and which one does my system use, how do I navigate directories, how do I create and delete files, how do I edit files. How do I copy or move files. If you know the basics of these things you know most of the stuff you need to know to understand what you are doing. If you want to read more about a specific command you can also always refer to the man page of said command. For this simply type in man “command name” (e.G. “man cd” this gives you the basic infos about the CD command (used for navigating directorys))
The existence of PC Master Race tells me everything I need to know about gamers who cling to windows. Edit: And post comments like the “report back” one you cited.
Oh man, don’t read the comments, sad to see the smartasses saying “report back when you install windows again in two months” while getting utterly fucked by Windows.
I mean, I understand being resistant to change but being a fanatic of Windows or anything for that matter just because that’s all you know is really ignorant, it’s not a sports team for fucks sake, of course it’s not easy switching and you will have problems just dont be afraid to ask and read the error warning.
Rant over
I use Windows for work and I miss Win10, I don’t like it but I’m aware that’s currently the target of most Consumer SW for good reason but that reason is starting to break (say it with me! BAD BUSINESS DECISIONS!!!).
Happy to see Linux getting mainstream, not all comments are bad but I the trolls got me.
It kind of reminds me of the whole Rust situation in a way. The evangelists were so heavy-handed that an active counter-movement developed, and with the adoption being wider the fanatics are heard less and what remains is their counterpart. We certainly aren’t quite there yet with the Linux discussion, but it seems to be what we’re heading towards.
I will say, I have very low hopes for this person sticking with Linux because they made a big deal about switching to it.
They’re going to feel like they need to continuously justify their decision as they’re learning, which will magnify the demoralization of every problem he encounters.
And he will encounter problems.
It’s like do-gooder derogation. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do-gooder_derogation )
Someone doing something good? Fuck them. They think they’re better than us?? Where do they get off??!?
A lot of people are trash and are emotionally invested in both the way things currently are, and that they are a very good person
TIL there’s a name for this
There’s a name for everything. There’s probably a name for there being a name for everything.
Panominism.
(edit: I made this up, probably.)
It’s regedit!
Well, if you honestly think about it, Linux has always been tried by many of people that eventually went back to Windows because something wasn’t entirely straightforward. Don’t get me wrong, I love Linux, but I don’t blame people for thinking that. Trying Linux is very different than sticking to it. Linux is amazing OS for people who put at least some effort into learning it, but like it or not, it can be absolute pain for those expecting things to just work without any interest on why they experiencing issues. Given how many sets of hardware and peripherals people have, weird quirks, bugs and required workarounds aren’t unheard of. Maybe it’s just something very simple to fix for an advanced user, but normies will just run away.
There’s the key flaw.
Maybe if we kept speaking of Free Software philosophy, people would not have these misplaced expectations they’ve been conditioned to as dis-empowered consumer cash-cows of the monopoly.
As someone who tried it for a few months then switched back for several years before returning permanently two years ago: Linux has long had the problem that it’s completely ready for different people at different times.
In 2017 it was in pretty good shape if you weren’t a gamer, didn’t mind tinkering a fair bit, were prepared to learn a completely different two ways of installing software, and didn’t rely on proprietary apps (I couldn’t get Netflix to work). I was only ready for the tinkering. Also I’d used Ubuntu and gnome just added more changes.
Five years later a lot had changed. I wasn’t using Netflix (especially not in the app) for one. But Proton had come around and made gaming just work. My wifi drivers just worked unlike before. Years of mobile app stores and a few months of lemmy had prepared me for repos, even though it still took some getting the hang of to switch from just downloading and double clicking an exe file. But also the software options are increasingly available rather than having to learn to use old school wine while in the middle of a massive change. I still think I should switch away from garuda at some point as I dislike some of the choices it made (no flatpak support for one), but I love aspects of it. And all throughout that time that Linux was getting more accessible to someone like me who isn’t a coder, but was tech nerd curious, windows was increasingly getting in my way and becoming anti user.
I think adoption will continue to increase as Linux continues to get easier for more people
Garuda was a great distro for a hot minute. It was right where it needed to be to access Steam on Linux right as the Steam Deck came to market. It got all the performance benefits of Proton immediately as other distros had to play catch-up.
It still is a great distro, but it’s lost some is that exclusivity.
I love the eyebleed aesthetic of it I’m just now skilled enough to get that on something like fedora or Debian. And these days what I want is for more things to work easier which puts me out of the arch sphere. If garuda hadn’t committed hard to the aur I’d probably love it but the aur does everything 3 ways 1 of which may still be maintained and it leaves you just wanting the actively maintained flatpak.
Like I don’t hate it, it was the right distro at the time for me as it was noob friendly and had plasma 6 when few others did. But I don’t need the bleeding edge anymore.
I appreciate that arch’s package manager is a bit of a monster - but that’s also what made it the prefect choice for me.
In the immediate aftermath of the release of the Steam Deck, there was many hot weeks where arch’s ability to turn on a dime was exactly the tool needed to run all the new things valve released (fast development to deploy is aur’s specialty). This advantage was destined to not last more than 6 months, as that’s the release cycle for other distros.
Nothing prevents ya from using Arch to install Flatpack, tho. It’s also really well documented at https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Flatpak 😅
I must say on mine laptop it took fewer tries to have Linux mint working. When I was installing the Nvidia drivers I was losing the WiFi ones and couldn’t do anything to fix without internet there
So after some reinstalls I learned I need to update mint first, than do the Nvidia update, this did the trick for me.
I think that describes computers.
Windows does the same thing, only worse because it is harder to trouble shoot, and harder to fix if you find yourself at the point where a reinstall is the only way out.
I am dealing with a laptop like that now for someone else, and it would be simple if it was linux, but of course its a pain in the ass because its windows.
Linux Mint just worked.
Which is like 95% of people.
Imagine if cars worked this way. Imagine you needed to be a mechanic to operate your vehicle. To start and drive your car, you first have to do automotive work, and know how to do automotive work.
A lot less people would drive themselves. A lot more Ubers.
I mean that’s exactly how cars were for the first ~50 years they existed.
Fits with the recently announced 5% Linux use.
Maybe eventually people will increasingly realize the folly of this expecation.
Maybe even “AI” atrophying their skills will wake people up to this problem, right through to no longer wanting to be consumer cash-cows of the monopolistic corporation.
Convenience, so sweet, in the short term. Maybe eventually people will learn, the sweeter the juice, the more dangerous the pitcher plant. And then people will learn to drive. And to be able to mend their own. And stop buying the ones that make it difficult to mend. Seeing the folly of such dis-empowerment.
*Dreamer*
Wait what? Hahaha, it is only a problem when things don’t work. Same with cars, as in your analogy, if your car is not starting your are taking that Uber…
You don’t need to be a mechanic, but you need to know the lights in your panel, know how to check the oil, know how to change a tire, etc… For when things go wrong and maybe you can repair what’s needed yourself.
Bringing it back to Linux, you can try Linux directly from a USB without installing anything and most of the time it just works. If gradma is only reading the news or watching youtube she doesn’t care what OS it is.
I’ve been using Linux as my daily driver for over a month. The only thing I miss are some old windows apps that I’m too lazy to troubleshoot in Wine.
I’ve been daily driving Linux for about 3 years now and one major tip I can give is to avoid using non Linux apps as far as possible. When I started with Linux I also tried to get windows apps running on Linux, but this, at least as far as I remember, never worked the way I wanted ans always caused more troubles. Currently I’m at a point where I dont even know when I used plain wine (I am not counting proton) the last time. It has been 2 years at least. I Am using native Linux apps for everything I do. Much less trouble shooting, no need to learn wine additionally to the command line and much less prone to breaking because of an update.
Yup. I’ve been daily driving linux for about 22 years now, and seeking solutions to what I want to accomplish was[/is] a much more enjoyable exploration than trying to wrestle the square peg in the star shaped hole.
It’s the free software (free as in freedom), not the “can I get this proprietary software for windows to run in linux”. Best to understand this and make that leap. Then life gets so much better. The more of your software that affords you (and everybody) the 4 freedoms of free software, the better.
This is the right approach but IF you must and IF you have decent computer, try Winboat
What if you run windows apps through proton
Havent done that (except for games ofc)
Who knows, maybe Autodesk will finally start thinking about Linux.
They already use Qt anyway, so the .NET part is all they’d need to fix.
There’s Mono. I don’t know what portion of .NET compatibility issues that addresses in 2025.
Well of course, there’s probably other Windows stuff they are also using, considering how much they aren’t even trying to ship for something like Ubuntu, which would be super easy otherwise.
I can only imagine how big of a push Autodesk can easily put towards Linux. That would easily make the current rise to 5% be nothing in comparison. Maybe MS is paying them too, to keep them together.
Of course it might also just be that MS makes it easier for them to setup a DRM (Digital Rights Management) as compared to Linux, not that it matters considering how much they have been pirated.
Then there was this person who was not using Linux because of the CAD software he wanted to use and when I asked what exactly it was, he said, “KiCad”[1].
it’s available in Arch and Debian official repositories ↩︎
KiCAD is available for most distros. You can even get it via flatpak
Yeah, so you see, they just don’t know that the stuff is available.
They are also the types to download from stuff like Softonic/MegaUpload etc. when the official website has downloads available, so even if the website were to advertise Linux availability, they would never end up seeing it.
I’m suspecting around 80% of the people who switched to Linux after Win11/AI stuff, will switch back within 6 months.
I’m saying this as a Linux user.
I’m still going strong two years later! :D
Yes and that’s ok, but the comment you tagged is about the people just shitting on linux without even trying it, they are kind of Windows hooligans.
The top comments don’t look too bad now… Maybe they’re ranked differently or something
they removed the comment section now 😅
I don’t see them as trolls. I’ve been on ZorinOS for about a year now. I hate it because I don’t know how to do anything, but I’m not smart enough to learn terminal.
Flatpaks are the answer to installation. But any problem I have, I google, and every result starts the same way.
NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
I have a 100% rate of those solutions not working for me. And the reason is simple. Those solutions assume you know how to use linux. So when you copy and paste their terminal commands, and your terminal responds with error: dependancies not found, YOU know how to fix that error and it works for you. But for most regular people, thats the end of that. Problem not solved. Problem remains a problem FOREVER.
No, seriously. I have a usb recovery stick that allows me to backup/restore my hard drive exactly how it is. Anytime I have to use terminal I ALWAYS make a backup of my hard drive first. Which takes 4 hours. And the reason for that is, when I inevitably fuck something up in terminal, and the whole OS crashes, and refuses to boot, I have a backup. It takes nearly 20 hours to restore the image, but it works. But whatever problem I was trying to solve remains.
Imagine if that were your linux experience. Windows spies on you. They have enshitification out the ass. But it works for the masses without technical knowledge.
The other issue is that businesses use windows. So most people are firmiliar with windows. So all the popular programs are on windows. Linux has a way to emulate windows programs, but its hard to get working, and sometimes just DOESN’T work.
If linux had every single program windows has, 100% as a flatpak, it would do wonders for install rate…for about a year.
Once people install the programs, they’ll at some point run into an issue. On windows you solve the problem 99% of the time by restarting. On linux, that hasn’t fixed any of my problems once.
These people aren’t trolls. They just have a different opinion than you from a different perspective.
Next time you have an issue in linux, any issue, regardless of how small, I want you to turn off your computer for 4 hours. Then turn it back on for 5 minutes. Then off again for 20 hours. Don’t solve the issue. I know YOU can solve the issue in 30 seconds, but don’t. After the 24 hours no computer use, just live with the problem for the rest of your life.
Yeah, that doesn’t sound fun, does it? Sounds like a reason to have a sour experience. Suddenly they don’t seem like trolls.
That command terminal thing is so real. When it works, its magic. When it doesn’t work, you just messed with forces you didn’t understand and are already forced into chancing a repair and maybe make the problem worst or getting back to the original one! (Very discouraging if you are just trying to get work done, especially for non techies)
I think the problem with linux users is that they can’t imagine that the appeal for most people who want to use an OS is to make something happen in the “real world” with a top level piece of software, like you want to draw a cute cat on the screen not learn how the compositor draws the pixels to multiple different screen resolutions WHEN the monitor model is a use case supported scenario.
The objective is to use the computer as a tool NOW for a SPECIFIC thing without diving into the inner guts of the machine for some people, and that’s honestly fine.
Some examples of what you’ve been unable to accomplish might add clarity.
Bull. Shit. You’re just not used to it and, even without picking up any knowledge of shell scripting, you’re only a
man somecommandaway from understanding what specific command line programs do.somecommand --flag --another-flag /home/me/thingtypically isn’t much different from opening some GUI app on Windows, ticking two boxes, opening the file picker and selectingC:\users\me\thingthen clicking a button.All that said, now we really need examples because there’s probably no need for you to be messing with the terminal to begin with. At least not if you aren’t doing anything outside basic computing like web browsing, chat, productivity tasks and such. So what are you trying to do in the terminal that the OS failed to provide a GUI for?
I haven’t used Zorin but flatpaks are enabled by default if I understand. Yes, you can install them via the command line but it looks like you could just open the built in software center and search for whatever it is you want. The only exception I can imagine is if you’re trying to install from a source other than whatever Zorin uses by default (Flathub, I would guess).
With Flatpaks? Wat? With some other command? Context, please.
You’re competent enough to image and restore your drive but not stay out of trouble in your OS? You presumably had to learn whatever software, and the underlying concepts, you’re using for that. Clonezilla, Rescuezilla, Macrium Reflect, etc all exist to make it easier but you’ve gotta know what an “image” is, what it means create it and subsequently write it onto a drive. How to identify the correct drive so you’re not wiping out something unintentionally.
So, are you not spending even a few minutes to check if the code snippets you’re pasting are applicable to your specific distribution? At least skimming the
manpage for the commands you try to run? Are you assuming “it’s all just Linux, right?” and that there isn’t nuance between distributions? Running shell commands you don’t understand is like running whatever backup solution you’re using without understanding it - just blindly clicking buttons and maybe you get a backup or maybe you format a drive and lose decades of family photos, your research paper draft, and whatever else. And if a fuckup costs me a literal day of my life in restoration time, I’m making it a point to use that time to figure out why so I hopefully don’t repeat the process in the future.There’s little substance in your complaints and I’m left just so genuinely confused. In my head I’m imagining a walking talking XY Problem. Some specific examples of what you were trying to achieve or the snippets you were blindly pasting might shed some light but, left to guess, your actions sound akin to gamer kids running random batch scripts claiming to tweak power settings or whatever else in order to eke out a few extra FPS. Windows isn’t going to protect anyone who treats it the same way you have seemingly treated Linux.
You can learn how to use the terminal. You have demonstrated the ability to compose a coherent sentence, you can learn.
Every terminal command is a program. Typing a “command” into the terminal is just typing the name of a program. If you type
firefox, Firefox launches. If it’s installed, we’ll come back to that. Anything else in the “command” like if you see letters or words after a dash, something likels -ais an option, it’s like ticking a box in a dialog window, but on the front end. I recommend spinning up a virtual machine or getting a Raspberry Pi or something you don’t care about, and following some tutorials. Learn how to move around the file system, install software, run some utilities.About that “if it’s installed” part. You mentioned you run Zorin. Zorin is what I call a Trendy Distro Of The Month. I’ve been using Linux for twelve years now, this hasn’t stopped yet. There’s the mainstays like Debian, Ubuntu, Mint, Red Hat, Fedora, Arch, OpenSuSe, there’s the niche special purpose things like Kali and TAILS and Puppy and Tiny, and then there’s the hundreds of quadrillions of “We took Ubuntu, put Steam on it by default, swapped SystemD for whatever.rs, swapped Firefox for Chromium and did a half-assed job at theming and extending Gnome that’s going to break every time they push an update.”
PeppermintOS, ZorinOS, ElementaryOS, Pop!_OS, Garuda, Nobara, Endeavor, Manjaro, Bazzite, Cachy, hundreds of others, are basically the same software in some slightly mutated permutation that most veterans aren’t familiar with. Invariably the veterans first hear about them from noobs who went looking for a distro that is “good for gaming” or “easy for beginners” and because SEO they find the Trendy Distro Of The Month. Which always offers some little gimmick that ultimately doesn’t matter. The process of getting a Bazzite ISO is taking a little Cosmo quiz about what you’re going to do, but then the installer is really borked compared to Mint or even Fedora.
A lot of instructions are written with Ubuntu or sometimes Fedora in mind, and then you pick a distro that differs from those, and then bitch that instructions don’t work.
Also, you need to upgrade your backup hardware if it takes 20 hours to image a drive. That should take minutes.
By the way you write I now you are smart enough to learn the terminal and you should not fear it, since you are starting with linux it is expected that you will make errors and that is ok. Linux is yours to do and undo.
One of the reasons why Mac was able to take some market share from Windows is that all their computers are the same regardless of the needs of the user, so trouble shooting is easy as all are the same.
Your full backup strategy is kinda overkill, also tells me your are more than capable of learning the terminal btw, you should just back up the critical data then reinstalling/fixing your installation will take the same amount of time for backing your full drive. There are forums to ask for help in linux and there are a lot of us that try to help brother/sister in need. Also timeshift might be easier faster than the usb thing.
I do not know Zorin OS but there are other flavors of Linux that might be better for you, maybe something atomic like Bazzite which is immutable so you can’t fuck it up. One distro does not represent all.
About your Windows for the masses comment, every one of us linux users started with Windows because that’s what the computers came with, Microsoft paid a lot for that to happen, and the users got used to Windows and got used to its quirks. That is in itself technical knowledge, so there are no computer users “without technical knowledge”
About the restarting the computer to solve issues comment. That’s just not true, my work Windows computer started blue screening with no reason, no amount of restarting fixed that.
Now to the trolls, they are trolls, your are giving a proper argument for your use case and I respect you for that because you are giving linux a try. The trolls im referring to are the ones shitting on linux without even trying it or just calling people names because they dare to try something different.
About your comment for living with issues with my setup forever as a non-techy user reminded me of the 10s of toolbars my aunt had in her computer and complained when I removed them because she had gotten so used to them.
Do not fear the terminal even Windows was once DOS, install and try all the distros you can they are FREE, there are a lot of flavors for different needs.
Can’t speak for you, but trouble shooting, even if you dont know what you do, is at least in my experience way easier. A terminal command does the exact same thing, no matter on which system (OK, there are differences like package manager, but you get what mean) and no matter when. On Windows you get 10 screenshots of a UI that has changed 10 times since the creation of the guide and no or a completely useless error message if something does not work. As long as you are not trying to debug big ass problems that affect core components of your system (bootloader, drives, stuff with the kernel) it is in fact quite hard to fuck up your entire system (it can happen with Updates on Arch, but this is usually quite rare). As long as you are not touching anything else except your /home directory you should not be able to break your entire system. Also if you are still scared of losing date, there are ways of creating system snapshots (backups). Backing up your home directory is enough because this means, that all the files you use daily are backed up.
Since you mentioned dependencies, here’s a quick answer to what this means. There are a shit ton of programming libraries. A library has the use case, that a developer does not have to reinvent the wheel every time they want to do something. You dont want to write a complete library for GUIs every time, but instead use standardised well maintained and documented libraries. Since Programms use these they depend on the user having this library (or alternatively Programms) installed. This is called a dependency. In most cases dependency errors mean, that an expected library is not installed. In this case simply copy the name, and search “install name Linux (or your Distros)” and you are almost guaranteed to find a tutorial for installing it.
My best tip is, that you take the time to learn the basics of Linux. What is a package manager and which one does my system use, how do I navigate directories, how do I create and delete files, how do I edit files. How do I copy or move files. If you know the basics of these things you know most of the stuff you need to know to understand what you are doing. If you want to read more about a specific command you can also always refer to the man page of said command. For this simply type in man “command name” (e.G. “man cd” this gives you the basic infos about the CD command (used for navigating directorys))
The existence of PC Master Race tells me everything I need to know about gamers who cling to windows. Edit: And post comments like the “report back” one you cited.