give me and place
kinky.
Malk
Carnist brainwashing is a real thing that’s rampant in our fascist society.
Milk isn’t carne tbh
Milk? No. Dairy production? Absolutely.
I meant it’s not meat. It’s animal abuse for sure, but it’s not meat. You do not eat the animal when consuming milk
I hate milk so much. The taste, the texture. Just the thought of drinking a glass of milk again makes me want to projectile vomit. I had to drink a glass of milk for dinner every night as a kid. I wasn’t allowed to leave the table until it was gone. Sometimes I’d sit there for an hour just trying to force myself to drink it. My parents were like, just drink the milk, it’s not so bad, get it over with, but it felt like being tortured every night. I was violently ill afterwards almost every time.
Turns out I’m both lactose intolerant and neurodivergent. Yes I was being a little drama queen, but I at least had reasons :)
I couldn’t drink it as a kid without cacao, but somehow as an adult it was fine.
Still don’t drink it much, I prefer mineral water. Nice and salty
Who knew? One-size fits all health guidance doesn’t actually work!
Supporting you, not trying to diminish your experience.
I was made to spell ‘pepsi’ before getting caffeinated sugar syrup at dinner. Looking back, that seems like poor decision making on my parents’ part, but I can see the good intended behind the act. Hopefully we learn from those that came before… and make new and exciting mistakes!
Big Milk is so powerful, I’ve had older women in China ask me how I got so tall if I don’t drink milk.
This is China, with no history of drinking cows milk and like 90% of the population is lactose intolerant.
Lactose tolerance in adulthood is the mutation. Intolerance is the normal case for most humans. And most humans are tolerant to lactose in childhood.
In fairness, China’s southern and western provinces have historically been on the shorter side. But also, like… Yao Ming.
90% of the population is lactose intolerant
You can improve lactose tolerance if you introduce milk to kids at an early age and drink it continuously. My 50s-era Jewish family are all horribly lactose intolerant, but I grew up chugging the stuff and do just fine with it. Plenty of ABCs can and do drink milk and eat dairy, just as a matter of living in a country so full of cows and cow-products.
What happens in another 20-40 years, as we obliterate our grazing lands and drive the cost cow products skyward? Idk, man. But milk is a consumer staple for a reason. Calorically dense. Very useful in cooking/baking. Relatively cheap to produce and distribute. Goes well over cereal.
If milk did not exist, we would have to invent it.
We did invent superior forms of milk, such as oat milk.
We invented alternatives, definitely. But there are still plenty of trade-offs. Much lower in calories and saturated fats, for instance.
If you’re trying to fatten up a skinny little baby (as I’m currently working on, having placed with a toddler a few months back) the pediatrician is going to stare daggers at you if you say you’ve been giving the kid oat milk rather than whole milk. Literally had this conversation already and got hit in the head with a stack of literature just for asking.
Calorically dense.
Pretty sure most people in USA don’t need more calories.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK611097/
Relatively cheap to produce and distribute.
Dairy is literally the least sustainable and least efficient form of food production next to meat and palm oil.
https://www.trvst.world/sustainable-living/worst-foods-for-the-environment/
Pretty sure most people in USA don’t need more calories.
Milk is a highly effective method of fattening kids up who are malnourished or otherwise underfed. Whole milk is the go-to for toddlers coming off breastmilk/formula for a reason.
Dairy is literally the least sustainable and least efficient form of food production next to meat and palm oil.
Natural gas is a leading contributor to climate change. It is also the cheapest (for the moment) form of energy per kWh.
“Sustainability” is not the same thing as “Cheap” or “Easy to Distribute”. Quite the opposite.
Now, a lot of our cheap milk is a byproduct of our intensive animal agriculture, which is highly profitable but dismally inefficient. If that changes (because we killed a big chunk of our cow herds by mismanaging grazing land and water rights and fucking up disease mitigation) then I can see a world in which cow-milk drops off the menu quickly.
So, hey, let me know if that changes.
Pretty happy I grew up with hippy parents who raised me on almond and soy milks 😤
I’m on the older end of Gen Z and this was definitely a thing when I was little. My parents didn’t buy into the milk thing, but I had a teacher who went wild with it. I forget how exactly it happened, but she found out I had cereal for breakfast without milk poured on because that was how I liked it. She decided this meant my parents were neglecting my needs and that it was her job to “make up” for it during lunch time.
I’d often end up sick trying to get it all down. I’m not lactose intolerant, it was just that the amount she required me to drink (five cartons one after another) was more than I could keep down. (Years later, when The Gallon Challenge became a thing, it brought back the memories, though at least I wasn’t forced to drink quite that much.)
I’d rarely gotten sick before, so once I was being sent home for vomiting frequently, my parents learned what was happening and made it stop.
It only lasted a couple weeks, but I never drank milk again afterwards, so that teacher accomplished the exact opposite of what she wanted.
Wow, that’s child abuse. What a scary teacher!
Christians should not be allowed near children.
Not a Christian apologist, but where did it mention the teacher being Christian?
It didn’t, but I’ve met a few like that and they always were.
We also had the food pyramid, which said we should eat tons and tons of bread and grain.
From a general population health perspective, the pyramid was a pretty good system. It was basically an attempt to simplify the Mediterranean pattern. I like the Power Plate better though.
I was raised on the food shape, so my diet shunned fancy foods and consisted mostly of aspic and curried cheese
Ah yes, cigarettes and milk. My favorite food group.
Honest representation of the health effects of milk.
I’d have a cigarette for breakfast followed by a bowl of heavy cream. Then I’d go work one half-hour, two half-hour…
Like so much. I couldn’t keep up.
The aggression and name calling in that second image reminded me of r/neverbrokeabone. I don’t miss much about reddit, but that particular subreddit was pretty damn funny usually.
Someone would post an X-ray of a broken pinky they got in a car crash and everyone would be like “GTFO of here with your little baby bird bones, you calcium-deficient piece of shit!”
“GTFO of here with your little
baby bird bones, you calcium-deficient piece of shit!”BBB, brittle bone bitch.
An X-ray of me, after I’ve finished my 10th daily glass of milk.
when I was a kid, among the things I would never have expected to stumble upon, near the top of the list in fact, there was “calcium supremacism abuse kink”
I did not wake up with any expectations of learning about Calcium Supremacism Abuse Kink this fine hallowed morning, nor any other morning for that matter thank you very much!
Hey I’m part of the club!
A gallon is either 4.5 ℓ in the UK or 3.8 ℓ in the US, or it might be used figuratively to just mean “a lot”.
pfft. Laaaaaameeee!
(but thank you)
Limeys gonna lime
Yanks are gonna yank
I am a manly man and I only put soy milk in my coffee. You can pry the bean milk from my unbreakable bones!
Has anybody else been surprised by what an ‘r’ could have done to the last sentence?
If you drink some vanilla soy latte sprinkled with cocoa powder, you basically have a 4-bean soup
Ooohhh.
I would waterboard myself with a tall cold frothy glass of whole chocolate milk. I’m a dirty little milk slut. I think I was essentially stockholmed into it. I remember being like “ew fat bad” as a kid and drinking skim for cereal. But somewhere down the line that turned into me just slopping heavy whipping cream neat. I mean fuck me I’m drinking a chocolate milk on my walk to work right fucking now.
I once drank so much chocolate milk in a short time that I almost puked. Was like almost 2L
I once drank so much milk I did puke. 10/10 experience tbh, cause like, I love milk. But also that was a good solid push during the purge phase of that.
Yeesh, drinking that much fluid in one go can be really dangerous, yeah.
Dude when I’m running a race I have to walk while drinking the tiny little paper cup of water they give you enroute because the physical activity combined with drinking something makes my stomach churn (nerves might also be playing a factor since I’m still at the stage where every race I’m excited but also too nervous to eat and struggle to get enough calories in before the race)
This is true, but drinking two liters of milk is a lot less dangerous than drinking two liters of water, because that much water at once will throw your electrolyte balance off, and that’s what can kill you. Milk has electrolytes in it so the effect isn’t necessarily as dire. But… still wouldn’t recommend it.
Water also has electrolytes in it, unless you are drinking RO or distilled water (which is perfectly safe by the way, the urban myth that drinking distilled water will kill you is incorrect)
So you’re saying it’s what plants crave?
Not as much as Brawndo, but yes.
Fuck I did once drink 3L of water in the span of 20 minutes just to see how much I could drink. After about 2.5L you can barely even drink at all. Not to mention how hard you have to go piss
4/10 body returned the product
I worked cleaning dishes in my college cafeteria, and one of the idiots working there made a bet that he could drink a gallon of milk without puking.
3 minutes later, he ran back into the dishroom and began vomiting in the soaking tub.
The human body physically rejects dairy at a certain point.
I know. I have seen videos from like 2010 of people puking after trying that. Although 2L is still quite a bit less than a gallon.
It’s ~half
Indeed. Which I would say is quite a bit less than a gallon which is ~twice that.
Once I learned fat is good, I started laying heavy layers of butter, lots of cheese, drinking whole milk, etc. And it tastes good, because we’ve evolved to like what’s good for us.
because we’ve evolved to like what’s good for us.
Lots of tasty berries will kill you. So will tons of would-be herbs. Processed sugar is delicious. So are a lot of foods with trans fats. Cyanide apparently tastes like almonds. And kids ate lead paint chips because they were sweet.
Nice job, evolution!
We also developed brains to learn which things will kill us despite tasting good, so that’s fine. Very good job, evolution!
Yeah that part is true, I’m just saying that something tasting good doesn’t mean it’s good for you
In certain cases, sure. But for the most part, if it tastes good and can be found in nature ready to eat, it’s usually good for you. But yes yes yes, certain conditions apply, etc etc yadda yadda.
Cow’s milk is good food.
“But some people are lactose intolerant!”
Too bad for them.
“Saturated fat clogs arteries! You’re gonna have a heart attack!”
It’s far more complicated than that, and not nearly as big a concern as most people think.
Uhh, the people saying saturated fats clog arteries are right. Which is why the American Heart Association recommends aiming to keep it under 6% of total calories, as well as seeking to replace saturated fats with sources of unsaturated fats.
You are absolutely on a path to heart attack if you don’t reign in those kinds of foods.
There’s nothing inherently wrong with it as a food, like most other foods, but it’s not a health panacea as it was portrayed in milk advertising previously. Its main drawback for public health is that it is fairly calorically dense, so while it may be better for you than soda, for those looking to lose weight, milk should not be your primary beverage.
Also: the dairy industry is questionable at best, from an animal treatment standpoint, as well as environmental.
It’s also got an unexpected amount of sugar in it, so people don’t realize what it can do to a kid’s teeth.
Very true, the same fact also makes it a bad choice for those with diabetes as well.
Preach!
Agreed, but people without toes should also be tolerated.
toelerated*
No food stolen from the oppression of other beings can be good food. Cow’s milk is for baby cows only.
I mean it’s pretty tasty though
Your sensory pleasure really shouldn’t be rated anywhere close to a beings wish to avoid suffering. Not going to respond to anything more you post because your first comment was basic troll bait and this conversation with openers like yours will go nowhere and make me angry.
It’s so fun when people just run in, foist their personal choices on others then call them the troll.
Yeah they were the ones that instigated.
All because someone said they like to drink milk, but I’m the troll?
You can not excuse harm to others as a personal choice. When there is a victim “personal choice” is irrelevant.
That milk isn’t for you. It’s stolen.
ok
The calf grew up already.
It’s entirely possible to take only excess milk from a cow, especially as she will continue to lactate for as long as you continue to milk her. But I also feel it’s important for you to know that in the industrial dairy industry what they do is get her pregnant, take the calf away immediately after birth, and then get her pregnant again soon after.
You realize that these cows are not feeding calves, right? **It’s all excess. **
If you keep extracting the milk, they keep producing it, even years after their offspring has grown up.
I’m not sure what you mean. She would be feeding the calf if they didn’t take it away from her. I’m not sure what percentage of them are allowed to grow up, given the popularity of veal.
They will continue to produce milk, but in factory farming they’re impregnated roughly once a year to keep the amount of milk high and to give it more marketable qualities.
That’s not a justification for stealing the milk. It’s not yours.
My family took care of a small herd of dairy goats when I was growing up. They could definitely make their displeasure known if you tried to make them do something they didn’t want to (especially when they were very nearly your own weight). Milking time? Most days they were perfectly happy to jump up on the stand for us to relieve their udders for them, sometimes even before we’d gotten everything set up.
I am careful where I get my milk from because the big dairy institutions are rather problematic. And I agree that the broad disempowerment and incarceration inherent in farming is an issue on its own. But saying that milk is always, unequivocally, unwanted theft (and respectively that farms provide an unqualified worse life) is just the other side of the same human-exceptionalism coin – you’re removing their agency to say “yes”.
re: @[email protected]
cc: @[email protected]There’s no sustainable way to do this for 8 billion people, so frankly I don’t give a shit.
Ah, good to know you have a argument ready to allow you to move the goalposts, and that you won’t accept any solutions for achieving utopia that don’t come out of the gate already perfect.
To be equally blunt, my response wasn’t “all eight billion people should drink small-farm milk”, it was “you’re being anthropocentric in a very similar vein to saying all other animals are automata.” If you really do think humans are the only species which can have and express desires and dislikes, then enjoy your biological essentialism.
I believe in verbal consent and think your argument is uncomfortably similar to rape apologia - you can just tell she wants it!
Weren’t these species selectively bred to have excess milk for us?
Cows don’t have a concept of property.
Cows have to be tricked into letting their milk down. They won’t let you steal it otherwise.
Do you have a source for that or are you just guessing because it’s a cow?
I don’t need to guess. Because it’s a cow.
Giving up dairy was surprisingly more challenging than giving up animal flesh. I felt subtle withdrawal symptoms for months on a physical level, that was reminiscent of quitting nicotine. But on the plus side my body as a whole felt distinctly better, far less inflamed after quitting all of that and replacing it with foods that are mostly anti-inflammatory (except when I binge on chips or popcorn).
But sometimes I wonder, how much does carrying guilt impact the body?
Guilt probably raises cortisol levels.
Could you recommend some easy to digest foods, which work well as anti inflammatories? Like, which have you noticed having a great effect compared to some with a low effect?
I ask as I get gut inflammation quite badly.
One thing to keep in mind is that reducing and removing pro-inflammatory foods is equal, if not more important, because otherwise you are just perpetually trying to heal from the same wounds you keep freshly laying down. When it comes to gastrointestinal problems, things get complicated. I’ve found three specialists on the subject whose work might help you. One is Dr. Sean Spencer. The other, whose books might be exactly what you’re looking for, is Dr. Will Bulsiewicz. And the last is Dr. Alan Desmond.
I’d like to give you a convenient list of foods, but for those of us with these illnesses, each one is a unique quagmire to untangle and I haven’t even fully solved my own gut illness yet (though my symptoms are consistently much better than they used to be).
This is incredibly helpful, thank you so much!
I have diverticular disease, which occasionally gets set off. It can be a real mess sometimes!
Having a healthy gut microbiome is itself anti-inflammatory, so you want to feed your little guys lots of prebiotic foods like crucifers, garlic, oats, and more. Some healthy bacteria thrive on the mucus you generate while fasting, a practice which also reduces inflammation.
If you’re having problems with your digestive system enough to ask about it, it’s possible you have an undiagnosed allergy or sensitivity. Many digestive sensitivities are identifiable only through an elimination diet since they don’t provoke an immune response to test the blood for. A food diary is a good place to start, but it can be really difficult to notice patterns. You should definitely work with a doctor if that’s a realistic option for you.
I’m gen z and the milk propaganda was everywhere lmao, what’s this person talking about
I think one big difference is that many people now recognize it as propaganda, whereas I remember a time when that stuff was just taken as wisdom and the dairy industry seemed to be a part of the health industry (that was also assumed to be in it for society’s good rather than profit). Losing that trust was pretty big.
I’m a young millennial and it was still going strong in the 00s, so I believe it. My family of 5 no joke went through 1.5-2 gallons PER DAY in ~2005
