I am asking because I know people from both sides:
- People who discourage it: usually talk about how the beggars might spend their money on, how they might be lying, How donating to them will encourage them to keep begging and how they should be looking for a job instead (My commentary: finding a job is impossible for them this days, matter of fact there is literally hundreds, if not thousands of articles online talking about how hard and impossible it had become).
- People who encourage it: to be honest here, they usually talk only about religious reasons.
(Note: I know that the overview about both sides are highly unbalanced, but I preferred to keep it limited to my personal experiences rather than expanding it from myself, as I intentionally not looking for theories and objective logic, rather I am looking at people reasons and opinions as this is highly subjective matter.)
Anyone got any thoughts about this?
You do you, but I can’t imagine it would improve their situation. I also don’t trust people. It sounds horrible but I’ve been taken advantage of before and I won’t let it happen again.
If I had infinite money I would give it all away but my real opinion is a lot more closed-hearted.
I grew up in a drug town in the US and over time my will to help just died.
I knew some people in active addiction and every time we were out they would notice someone begging and say “hey, I know them! I have used with them. They are NOT homeless” or something to that effect.
I have seen people use their kids as props. I have seen people leave the corner and hop in their expensive af vehicle. I have seen people rob whoever stopped to help them. The list goes on and on.
It’s genuinely unsafe to get involved. Sure, most people aren’t like that but I can’t tell the difference and it only takes one. Besides that, if I gave a dollar to everyone who asked, I would have nothing left. I have to worry about me and mine.
Maybe if I grew up in a safer neighborhood I would feel differently but you don’t un-learn survival and I stopped carrying cash all together because of this.
I say, it’s your money, make the choice yourself. I’d rather donate time and money to an org like Food Not Bombs where they can use the same amount of money to help more people. But, let’s face it, I’m too busy these days to find the time to volunteer. So for me, if I have money–and I usually don’t–I’ll give them what I feel like I can.
Policy wise, this has always been my hill to die on. Giving the homeless money directly is my exclusive form of charity. Because I don’t want some capitalist on some bragging rights philanthropy board getting part of my donation as part of their six figure board salary. They’ve done enough.
A large homeless population is a symbol of a failed society’s crimes against itself.
If a society doesn’t exist to take care of its people from the worst off upward at all times, it is without a benevolent point and it’s existence is without worth.
The homeless in the US are the US’s greatest domestic victims, left to die horribly of exposure and
policecapital defense force brutality for the crime of failing to become model exploitation vessels for our robber Barron’s insatiable greed disease.Most of them should have conditionless basic housing, the worst off should be inpatient mental health wards of our society, as they are us whether we hate them or not. But we aren’t willing to pay for that. Even though mass homelessness is not inevitable with good policy and funding.
Worse still, many non wealthy Americans hate them for lowering their… 🤮… Property values. This all goes back go us being a society in name only. We’re more a bunch of exploited, deluded peasants at each other’s throats for robber Baron scraps as they use their media and their captured government for blaming their greatest victims, those people under your local freeways and tent cities, for their avarice fueled malice.
Communism may starve human nature, but capitalism indulges and gluts humanity’s worst, most vile impulses exclusively. It breeds sociopathy as a desirable choice.
And considering the depths our homeless have been brought to by the society that betrayed them, I genuinely do not care if they spend it on food or shelter or alcohol or drugs or whatever will give them even a moment of solace/escape/peace from what we have done to them.
I’ve been couch surfing homeless before and that was rough enough. People begging for money have it way tougher. Just because there might possibly be someone who has a house and a car behind for money doesn’t mean it’s a scam, they might also be desperate for money despite having those things.
Begging for money isn’t very lucrative.
If you have the cash and want to help, go ahead and toss that starfish, but if you don’t want to don’t pretend you’re taking the high road.
If they ask and I have it, sure. People will say “I don’t want my money going towards drugs and alcohol” to which I say “who cares?” once you hand it over it’s not yours anymore, let them do with it what they want. Their lives are already shit as is so what do I care if my $2 coin is going to go buy them a beer…oh no a single beer, they’ll get wasted!
Others will say “but you’re just encouraging it” my guy I live in a city of millions not everyone is handing out twonies to homeless people, it’s not going to cause a massive increase in drug use or alcoholism.
I prefer donating to food banks etc. That’s a good tradeoff between helping people eat and not feeding addiction or encouraging begging. I want a world where anybody struggling just goes to the next food bank and shelter and won’t freeze, won’t go hungry and find assistance to improve his situation. The cost for these things is so little and it helps so much.
There are a lot of homeless people that stand on the side of roads with signs asking for charity where I live. There is almost an equal amount of people who do it as a “job” and take turns being on shift with their buddies before they walk to a nearby parking lot and drive back home at the end of the day. They usually do not accept food if offered. Actual needy people will gladly take food. If I were to give cash to someone, I’d offer food first.
Sometimes they are allergic. Sometimes they aren’t hungry and have no way to store the food you give them. Sometimes they are sick of the same food because there’s a taco bell nearby and that’ll all everyone gives them. Sometimes people give them stuff that you need to cook and they have no way of cooking it. There’s legit reasons why someone might turn down food if you try to give it to them.
You’re not wrong. There may be legitimate reasons to turn down food. There are definitely other indicators which could be a tell as to whether they are truly needy or not. Their response to food is usually a big one, but shouldn’t necessarily be the only thing to make judgements on.
Can confirm this. I was in downtown Kansas City Missouri on a daily basis for a time in the late 90’s. There was always someone with a sign at a big intersection close to the river. One day I spotted the person that was there that morning at gas station in the afternoon. They got in a BMW at the gas pump and left. It was at that moment that I mistrusted every pan handler I ever saw afterword. Turns out it was a whole family that sent someone down there daily. They dressed down but they were living big in a town right outside the city.
People can be in desperate financial situations and still have a car. Hell for some people that’s their only shelter. Begging doesn’t really get you a lot of money, so that family might’ve been desperate for a different reason than being homeless.
Nope that wasn’t the case. When I asked around I found out they were not poor or desperate. Few people dare I say no one with a late model BMW is living in their car.
I mean, who’d you ask? Anyone who actually knew them?
You have to be trolling.
I had a lady come up to me in the grocery store with her child and ask very quietly in very broken spanish/english to help her buy food for her and her daughter - who looked to be about 2. My first reaction that I acted on was to say sorry and walk away. Then it hit how cold and callous that was. Even if she was a scammer, that is not an easy way to make money. So I found her gave her $20 and walked away. A few minutes later I saw her with a cart and some food with a smile on her face.
My opinion is that if I have a bit of money that I can do without there is someone that could do with it I’ll let them have it. The money may go to a scammer from time to time and I know in the past it has, but if I can help one genuinely needy person I do what I can, not going to let the shit bags (both scammers and politicians) keep me from trying to help
I give them a fiver and ask them if they need anything else. Saying ‘they might buy something wrong’ is a slippery slope to ‘people shouldn’t get benefits because they might buy beer.’ And I have heard right wing politicians literally say the latter.
I want them to get that fucking beer man. Being homeless sucks. A beer makes it suck less.
“Don’t give that guy money, he’ll just use it to buy drugs”
I’m just going to use it to buy chocolate, fuck does it matter if it’s his addict or mine? At least I still have a house to eat my chocolate in.
People don’t typically eat enough chocolate to die. Where as many “beggars” use the $ to buy drugs which certainly can/does result in ODs.
Not giving someone $5 ultimately won’t do anything to change that. The government needs to implement radical harm reduction policies.
Wrong. Any amount of cash can help someone buy a “fix”. That fix could be fatal. If you don’t believe it, you’re ignorant.
And you’re going to make the decision based on that and someone who would have gotten food or saved for medicine, or only needed that $5 to get a room night doesn’t get there. I’m not here to police that, all I know is I have, they don’t, and if I have something to give I should.
I agree. Some people buying something bad for them doesn’t mean they’re unworthy of the chance to buy food or something else objectively helpful for life.
Here they are always on street corners. I never give money because I don’t want to encourage unsafe behavior, as our streets are pretty high-speed. I would much rather provide to the shelters.
As someone who’s been homeless, I deride the term beggar. Still, It depends, If I have something on me I can part with. A joint, a cigarette sure. Got a fairly annoying allergy that means I often wind up with some food stuff I can’t eat. If I have bills they can have cash. Change is kinda worthless here. If someone looks hungry, I’ll give them something. But there’s so many now in the area, you can’t help everyone.
I been on the bottom rung. So I know that kind of living. And because of that I help when I’m able to.
Honestly for me, it’s very hard to trust people who haven’t fallen on hard times. People that have never been in trouble, always feels like they look down on you, and don’t understand the system that keeps people down.
Ive spent a night or two in jail, I’ve been broke as fuck, I’ve had to go without. Until you’ve experienced it, it’s hard to fully understand.
And it’s impossible to explain to people who haven’t lived it.
Occasionally I will say “how much more to get some product” followed immediately by “how much ya got”. If they show change in their palm or otherwise engage honestly, I’ll usually top them up. Have your beer dude, if your life is so crummy this is what you need to feel OK go ahead. Never ever ever ever ever ever ever give to somebody that claims they are hungry because that is a bald-faced lie.
But generally the way I give is to check on the addicts in the bus shelter during extreme winter nights, bring them hot/cold water, supplies to plug wind holes and otherwise keep it warmer, plus whatever I salvage in my travels. In summer I maintain the community “ice water” zone which is just at the stump of a tree, but now that all the people in the hood know it’s there, it’s raided continually. I honestly can’t keep up as I just have a tiny freezer but it’s replenished as often as reasonable for me. The community chips in now as well… they’ve started to bring lidded takeout cups and plastic bottles and leave them there so I don’t have to constantly scout containers.
If someone asks, I’ll offer to buy them food or other supplies. My wife hands out handwarmers during the winter. We used to put together care packages for people, but lost the habit. I don’t give out money because I don’t want to enable addictions. When you offer something other than money, you are able to more easily separate people who want a fix over people who want to improve their situation. Your resources go farther when you help the latter.
edit: One thing that helps people out a lot is buying them public transit passes. It gives them mobility to get to shelter/services they wouldn’t have access to otherwise.
Worth pointing out that most people who help will offer food, but you can only eat so many times a day. Food is plentiful in developed nations. Most restaurants/grocery stores are throwing away and donating tons of food a day, these people will know where to get it.
You can’t buy shelter with food. Supplies are great, but they also wont help someone off of the street.
It’s not an easy problem to solve, but when I’m helping someone I don’t think it’s my place to be the morality police. In a perfect world, we would have systems in place to help these people overcome, or prevent it in the first place . But we don’t live in a perfect world.
They likely can’t buy shelter with a fiver or whatever you decide to give them either. The truth is that charities, food banks, and churches are much better equipped to supply the homeless with what they need because it isn’t a one-size-fits-all solution, which is why I donate to those organizations instead of trying to hand out money.
Let’s also be real: not wanting to enable addictions is not about policing morality. It’s about harm prevention. The drugs and alcohol they may buy with your money is likely to do more harm than good in a very practical sense and has nothing to do with my personal beliefs.
At the end of the day, your money won’t help them a majority of the time. Offering food or supplies gives them the opportunity to tell me what they need short term rather than me guessing or leaving things up to chance. Long term solutions are provided by other organizations, and your money is better spent there.
They likely can’t buy shelter with a fiver or whatever you decide to give them either. The truth is that charities, food banks, and churches are much better equipped to supply the homeless with what they need because it isn’t a one-size-fits-all solution, which is why I donate to those organizations instead of trying to hand out money.
What world do you live in that a fiver can buy someone a substantive quantity of hard, addictive drugs? You’re being completely disengenious here and asserting more moral policing. The absolute worst case scenario is that they use my fiver to get just enough of a hit to stave off withdrawal symptoms, and even if that’s the only relief I give them, it’s still better than offering more food to someone who isn’t hungry.
The solutions you are suggesting are turning away the addicts, the ones who need help the most. I’ll happily put it directly in their hands over giving it to a church with an ulterior motive to push their religious views onto the most vulnerable class of people, thanks.
Offering food is fine, if they are hungry and they want it. But if they decline food when that is not the type of help they need is not some admission of guilt, as it is so often portrayed to be. Often, they’re rightly skeptical of food from a stranger. Some will accept it to be polite but throw it out for their own safety. It only takes me and ~9 or so other people offering them that fiver to pay for a night’s stay in a cheap motel. Offering supplies if they refuse your food is also great to help them with urban camping, but too many supplies is also a liability where they now need to be concerned about theft. Packing light is just as much a survival tactic.
So yes, let’s be real here and help people with what they need not what you think they need. If that’s relief from withdrawal for a night, so be it. If it’s saving for a motel, even better. But services contingent on passing drug tests is not helping any drug addicts, it’s just putting them back onto the street.
Nobody has ever gotten a home from food and supplies, but they sure as hell do with money.
What world do you live in that a fiver can buy someone a substantive quantity of hard, addictive drugs?
I never claimed this. The accumulation of multiple fivers from different people can eventually get you drugs. You’re also neglecting cheaper substances like alcohol. Basically the money you accumulate from asking for money will get you alcohol/drugs faster than it will get you shelter.
You’re being completely disengenious here and asserting more moral policing.
Where have I inserted my morals here? I do not think people don’t deserve help because they are addicts. I merely acknowledge that they need a different kind of assistance than my pocket change will provide.
Offering food is fine, if they are hungry and they want it. But if they decline food when that is not the type of help they need is not some admission of guilt, as it is so often portrayed to be. Often, they’re rightly skeptical of food from a stranger. Some will accept it to be polite but throw it out for their own safety. It only takes me and ~9 or so other people offering them that fiver to pay for a night’s stay in a cheap motel. Offering supplies if they refuse your food is also great to help them with urban camping, but too many supplies is also a liability where they now need to be concerned about theft. Packing light is just as much a survival tactic.
What a tangent dude. Everything I offer is always based on what they request. I do not ever give them anything they didn’t ask for. If they got something that’s a burden to them, it’s because they asked for it. I’m not shoving food down their throat or forcing socks on their feet.
Nobody has ever gotten a home from food and supplies, but they sure as hell do with money.
Show me the story of the homeless person who accumulated enough fivers to afford rent.
My philosophy only acknowledges my help in passing as what it is: a short term relief for a complicated issue. If they use it for food, it will only last them a few meals at best. The food, however will not harm them. If they use it for socks, they will eventually wear out. Again, the socks will not harm them. If they use it for drugs/alcohol, sure it might give them relief for a while, but it might also just allow their addiction to persist. I just choose not to gamble on the last point by sending my money to nonprofits instead of leaving it up to people who are probably not in the right headspace for responsible decisions. If you want to give them money, fine. But don’t chastise me having conversations with people and need and trying to help them in a way I’m comfortable with.
Basically the money you accumulate from asking for money will get you alcohol/drugs faster than it will get you shelter.
And that’s fine. A severe drug dependence is a need, not a bad habit. You can’t expect someone to stop a drug they have a physiological dependance on overnight, because you don’t want to ‘enable’ them. Yes, that includes alcohol. Severe alcohol withdrawal can kill someone.
A drug addict chasing a fix without the means becomes a violent threat to society, and themselves. This is not the ‘harm reduction’ you are claiming.
Where have I inserted my morals here? I do not think people don’t deserve help because they are addicts. I merely acknowledge that they need a different kind of assistance than my pocket change will provide.
I’m sorry to inform you, but in a capitalist society, a lack of money is how someone ends up on the street, and it’s how they stay on the street. I can agree that in a perfect world there would be better solutions. The fact that people are still homeless in a society only proves that the solutions we have are currently inadequate, and those who slip through the cracks of our systems wont be helped by those systems as they are.
You can choose to help them in this reality they are in, or you can wax philosophical about what their reality should be. That’s up to you, of course
What a tangent dude. Everything I offer is always based on what they request. I do not ever give them anything they didn’t ask for. If they got something that’s a burden to them, it’s because they asked for it. I’m not shoving food down their throat or forcing socks on their feet.
Great. Good for you. The whole start of this conversation was simply to point out that offering exclusively food is not always the most useful way to help. I’m emphasizing this point for anyone who comes along to this thread with that viewpoint.
Show me the story of the homeless person who accumulated enough fivers to afford rent.
So this is another disengenous oversimplification. You will take the position that a homeless person can sustain a hard drug addiction from panhandling, yet they would not be able to afford a motel room for the night, or an extended stay, and begin their climb back into society. This is purely a moral judgement on your part.
I wont bother trying to convince you, there is plenty of homeless reporting available online that shows these struggles, you’ve just made up your mind and refuse to look.
I am not responding to all this but I cannot let this slide:
So this is another disengenous oversimplification. You will take the position that a homeless person can sustain a hard drug addiction from panhandling, yet they would not be able to afford a motel room for the night, or an extended stay, and begin their climb back into society. This is purely a moral judgement on your part.
You acknowledge that dependence is a need (which I agree with!) but you think that an addict will magically overcome their addiction when handed the money they could use to sustain the addiction? The justification you’re using for handing them money (i.e. relieving withdrawal) is the same reason I don’t expect an addict to buy a night at the motel over their drugs. The reasons are biological not moral. You must be operating on another definition of moral or something.
You’ve twisted what I’ve said yet again.
You’re starting from the assumption that they’re an addict, because that is your moral judgement of them. Not mine.
Take this for the uninformed opinion it is.
But, does panhandling ever lead to someone getting off the street? I thought of panhandling as pure survival resources.
I am unable to provide shelter, I could donate to one of the charities dedicated to temporary shelter to provide that. Arguably a better donation than panhandling, as those charities offer pathways off the street.
Jobs, permanent shelter, etc aren’t achieved via panhandling, but through other means (local charities, what not).
But, food/water/entertainment I can provide, like right now. So on my way into the fast food place/shop I’ll offer to grab something.
It only takes ~10 people a day offering $5 to pay for a cheap motel for the night. And yes, survival is the number one priority. A motel room provides a locked door, a shower, a bed, and peace of mind for a whole day.
Shelters are chronically over-capacity and prioritize women and children. Ask yourself, what demographic do you typically see panhandling in your area? I know who they are near me, and those people deserve survival too.
Also shelters often require things like drug/sobriety tests and restrictive curfews that would prevent homeless from holding down evening jobs, which are some of the most common types of jobs available in that situation.
I don’t know where you live, but there is not a single place in my city where I can’t find water to drink, a cheap or free bite to eat, or even a dumpster full of edible, contained food, and of course, a steady stream of people thinking that their 1 of 5 meal offers in a day will somehow solve the ‘roof’ problem.
I’m not telling you not to offer food. But if they are not hungry and you would have spent $5 on a burger, but not 1/10th of a motel, you are judging, not helping.
I’m also not telling you not to donate to shelters. If we all did, things might be better systemically. Personally, I am highly in favor of a far greater tax contribution to housing people. But that struggling person on the street corner today won’t get the help they need from wishful thinking or even a spare $5 to the shelter. But they could have a bed to sleep in tonight instead of a piece of cardboard if you give to them directly today.
I didn’t mean to give the impression I thought the food/coffee/magazine I offer solves the root of a problem. Merely that it’s a thing I can do to solve an immediate need.
The root of the problem won’t be solved by donations to either an individual or a charity. The root of the problem, imo, is political and requires a change in politics. I think we agree on this point.
I hear you. But 10 people donating £5 a day also pays for a shelter to hire a motel room no?
I’m also not judging people on the street, well I probably have some internal biases to work through (more likely to ask a woman than a man, that sorta thing) but I don’t consciously care much about the “what” they are. Also, those internal biases would present themselves no matter what I offered. A service that measured their biases would be better able to give equally than I would as an individual.
Here are the problems I, personally, have with cash donations:
Firstly, I don’t carry it, but adding one more coffee to the one I’m buying anyway is no issue.
Secondly, it doesn’t support panhandling as a career, shitty career choice probably a minority. So minor that if you want to argue that “The rate of professional panhandlers is zero (it isn’t) and this point is invalid” I won’t push back
Thirdly, it doesn’t get to the root of the issue, I’m not judging if they’re on the street for mental health, addiction, ex-convicts, bad luck, whatever, as in no-one deserves to live in the streets barring their own personal choice. But, I think solving the issue is beyond an instance of a donation. I also agree that charities don’t get to the root of the issue either, but I do think they’re better equipped than individuals. Individuals working with these services experience greater success than if they were to go it alone.
Not telling you you’re wrong, just trying to justify my decisions (maybe to myself).
I didn’t mean to give the impression I thought the food/coffee/magazine I offer solves the root of a problem. Merely that it’s a thing I can do to solve an immediate need.
No worries, I actually didn’t get that impression of you but I see that sort of sentiment a lot, so I suppose I was just trying to get ahead of it. I’m sorry if I was accusatory in my wording.
I agree it’s absolutely a great thing to address a need, even if it’s a simple comfort item. My concern just comes in with the “I’ll give you this but not money because you’ll just buy drugs” mentality that is so prevalent.
10 people donating £5 a day also pays for a shelter to hire a motel room no?
In a perfect world, maybe. I’d like to believe this, but I don’t. Do you really trust a shelter to solve this problem for that specific person? I don’t, but I can trust the $5 will go to whatever immediate need that person has. At some level, it’s also a sort of marketing problem. Not many people are doing that donation to the shelter, because they don’t see it. But you can plainly see the homeless person on the street corner in obvious need, and you can affect them specifically and immediately.
Here are the problems I, personally, have with cash donations:
Firstly, I don’t carry it, but adding one more coffee to the one I’m buying anyway is no issue.
I have to say, at least where I’m at in America, this is a non-issue. We are a digital society, homeless included. I’ve rarely encountered someone who can’t take a digital donation. Everyone has cash app, even if they have to take their phone to a McDonald’s Wi-Fi to access it. Barring that, I could likely get cash back anywhere I could get a coffee. And we all know how inefficient a coffee purchase can be.
Secondly, it doesn’t support panhandling as a career, shitty career choice probably a minority. So minor that if you want to argue that “The rate of professional panhandlers is zero (it isn’t) and this point is invalid” I won’t push back
Sure, use your judgement. I do make a distinction between panhandling and busking, or worst of all, common street scams.
But do you really think someone would be panhandling if they had access to a better option? If you’re able to inch them closer to the more comfortable life that you enjoy, why does anything else even matter?
Giving money is much more beneficial than buying meals etc.
OK, what do you think they can do with the $50 that they manage to accumulate that will seriously benefit them?
That’s kind of an impossible question to answer because the “they” is unknowable in your question.
But maybe they buy alcohol and drugs with it
Maybe they buy some medication they need to survive
Maybe they have a dog they want to buy food for
Maybe they have a family that could use the $50
Maybe they go to a thrift store and get newer shoes and socks for the winter
Who knows what they do with it but really $50 can help a great deal and unless you know the person well it’s difficult to know what they need it for. This isn’t to take away from what you and your wife have done, that is admirable and needed help too
That’s kind of an impossible question to answer because the “they” is unknowable in your question.
Exactly. The easiest thing to do is ask them what they want. Personally when they ask for money, I tell them I don’t hand out money and ask them if there’s something else they need. It is a good way to actually have a conversation with them and get them something they need.
I also want to be clear, I’m not going to judge anyone for giving money to someone in need. It is better than not trying to help at all. I just personally believe it is better not to give homeless persons money.
