Yeah universities should be about academics. Not sports. In fact, Universities, in my opinion, should just be banned from HAVING sports teams. Do that shit outside of school lmao. You shouldn’t be getting ACADEMIC scholarships because you can… “throw ball good”.
Counterpoint: universities exist to teach young people to be competent, well rounded members of society, including exposure to quality academics, music, art and sport. If you just want job training, go to trade school; if you just want academics, go to the library.
That’s what high school does (or should do).
That counter point is a classist view that id all too common in america. Not saying you are classist by having that view. But that a system based on that view, which america is, is classist.
Universities have historically been institutions of class structure, and not just in the US. I doubt that will change any time soon, and can’t honestly think of how it could. Tertiary education requires that a person give up some part of their potentially-working day to activities that don’t pay rent or put food on the table. Nevermind direct costs of education, if you don’t pay people to be students, then it will continue to reinforce class structure.
Personally, I think it’s in the state’s interest to encourage every individual to pursue as much education, of whatever form, as they choose. Tertiary education through university, college, or trade school ought to be without direct cost, and we ought to have enough social safety net to secure people while they pursue it. Do that, and some new structure will develop so employers can identify upper-class candidates, like unpaid internships.
That’s not how it is here in switzerland.
High school is to be well rounded.
In uni 95% of your courses are in your subject matter. Also non-university jobs are well valued. To the point we are on of the only countries where the working class isn’t getting poorer year on year compared to the 1%
So before I get into this, know that I’m biased as a colligate sport fan and a former NCAA athlete. But this is a bad take. Sports provide all sorts of benefit both internally and externally for the university. It is true that some athletic budgets are insane, and for what it’s worth I agree that the salaries that get paid are insane. But this is simply the price of an arms war. These colleges want the best facilities and coaches. And it’s not just for the dick measuring contest, though make no mistake that is absolutely part of it. But all sorts of studies show that general contributions and academic donations in particular increase with athletic team success, notably championship winning teams. People like to belong to a community, and sports fandom is one of the most tried and true sources of community. Plus the tv contacts for the so called revenue sports would make an oil tycoon blush. The presidents of these schools continue to invest in these programs because they continually prove to be an excellent roi. And I firmly believe that these same presidents know more than either of us about running their universities. And all of that is aside from what these sports provide to the most important stakeholders in a college, it’s enrollees. Again recognizing my bias here, but the only reason I made it through school to get my 2 degrees that I use professionally was the sports team I trained with. These teams provide structure to the college life, something that can be hard to maintain as you essentially start a new life. Plus, sport and exercise prove to boost academic performance both on the short and long timescale. Most institutions report higher average GPAs in the athletic department than the general population. Ever notice that elite academic institutions also tend to have elite athletic programs? This isnt always obvious as it’s often non revenue sports outside of the state schools that are in the aforementioned dick measuring contest. And even schools that aren’t know for athletic or academics will still tend to offer intramural sports as again they are a massive boon for the students but I feel like at this point I’m straying from the original point. All in all these athletic programs are good for both the institution as a whole, and those that study at them.
tl;dr Sports good for college
I would agree with you but the statistics are so far out of proportion in America right now. Across the country you have many schools who can barely fund educational departments while continuously increasing sports funding. This happened at my college recently, several times. We lost several history classes due to the football team requiring more budget.
So what you have instead is this awful cycle where they make so much more money from investing in sports than education, so they raise the education prices to fund both. Yet the government is subsidizing or at least fronting the cost for students. So now you have even less pressure to continue being an actual college. They begin to chase sports to the moon at the cost of all else.
Then you have the actual effect of sports players on the college itself where they attend. I know some hard working athletes with legitimate degrees, but those athletes are the first to tell me that the rest of the athletes are there for worthless degrees. So now you have to account for the fact that athletes are an investment in facilities and arenas and departments as well. Further skewing the purposes of the college.
The whole system is beyond broken and colleges shouldn’t have to depend on anything except education costs to survive
And this is where I absolutely will cross the aisle and agree with you. I obviously care for sport and think it can be massively beneficial. But I too see some of these smaller schools breaking their own back (and bank) trying to get some of that p5 football money. The school I am a fan of won’t even blink at a 7 or 8 figure bill for a sports complex upgrade, because they absolutely will make that money back. But the school I attended tried something similar (way smaller bill) and there was widespread outrage amongst the student population and rightfully so. This gets into that dick measuring contest I mentioned and I fully agree with you, that should not and can not be allowed to negatively impact academics. Sports are a net positive, but like all things not named heroin, they should be pursued in moderation.
Plus the tv contacts for the so called revenue sports would make an oil tycoon blush. The presidents of these schools continue to invest in these programs because they continually prove to be an excellent roi.
From my understanding, all that money goes back to the sport’s team, not the university. It’s a side hussle. If the money went back to the university, it would at least make sense.
It depends on the school.
Most fans don’t realize that not only do athletic departments pay the university market rate for the tuition, room and board of its student athletes, but also the upcharge for out-of-state students.
At nearly one-third of the schools I polled back in 2012 for my book, the university took a specified percentage of each donation made to the athletic department.
At many universities I polled, the university and athletic department split licensing revenue 50/50. So, even if the sweatshirt sold in the bookstore is specifically branded for the football program, that money is divided between the university and athletics.
True, but it’s in the minority for the donations:
At nearly one-third of the schools I polled back in 2012 for my book, the university took a specified percentage of each donation made to the athletic department.
Is that 1% or 10%? “Many” is a very vague term for financials. Plus, those were the ones polled.
At many universities I polled, the university and athletic department split licensing revenue 50/50.
Not to be a stickler, but having some universities do a little isn’t much.
Did you forget the first and biggest one?
All those athletic scholarships are paid for by the sports teams. It’s free money for the university. And the football team funds all the other sports, so a lot of football money goes to the university as tuition for an out-of-state soccer player or something.
Plus who do you think the sports teams pay rent and facilities fees to? The university who owns their facilities. The teams are non-profit so football has little incentive to save money.
How much are those scholarships worth every year?
UW football coach Kalen DeBoer is the 44th highest-paid coach in NCAA college football, with a total annual pay of $4.2 million, USA Today found.
there’s a lot of things wrong with college sports but kids getting a chance to get higher education that otherwise might not is absolutely not one of them.
Yes, but that opportunity should be granted based on economic need and a demonstrated ability to work hard, not based on athletic ability, because athletic ability is unrelated to your ability to study economics or physics or philosophy.
Just my personal experience, but I’ve found that the ability to work hard and push through doing things you don’t want to do is very much transferable between sports and academics.
Bad take with no argument to justify it.
Sports are good for universities. Monetarily it’s easy to see why, but it’s also academically good too. Having sports teams builds a sense of community for the school that will bolster fraternizing between otherwise separate groups of people. This leads to students forming broader webs of connections than they otherwise would, which gives better outcomes after graduation since they know more things about more of the world, which is the point of going to a university.
Sounds like someone played sports in University
I am still in university, and don’t play sports, and am glad that my school participates in NCAA sports
I suppose I’m biased as I have never had any interest whatsoever in things such as soccer (football for you freedom haters), basketball, golf, etc etc. Just don’t give a fuck about them. They’re used as the circus part of the bread and circuses in todays world. I mean, look at FIFA. Dumbfucks buy that every year or two cuz they love that corporate slop because “hurrduur f00tball”. Like if you want to play football… go play it in person. Why are you doing it in a video game :|
Because not everyone shares your tastes, and the fact that it makes a fuckton of money every year reflects that.
Also, most people I know who play FIFA also play Association Football. You need to rest muscles in between workouts to train properly, and if you really like Soccer, why not keep playing it while resting?
People like what they like. If it brings them joy, for sure. Football fans tend to be annoying as all fuck is why I have these opinions.
The highest paid high school employees are often the coaches. A lot more money goes into the football than anything else…
football also makes a lot more money than anything else
And that money gets plugged right back into the sports teams. When I was in high school, our theater auditorium where we did our plays was literally falling apart. We had to tape off seat rows that were unusable. But the football team got new locker rooms with jacuzzis in them.
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Yeah, but at least they gave the poor free food.
A society which charges students to acquire knowledge values neither.
That seems like an Utopian view you’re not paying for the knowledge but for the resources to learn and accreditation. Universities, professors, etc don’t pay for themselves. Even when University is “free” you are paying it through taxes - which is still fine by me.
I don’t agree, though, with the prices practiced in the US, that’s just a way of restraining the population. Where I’m from, going to college is not expensive, I cannot fathom having to pay those ridiculous prices.
Paying via taxes is not charging students.
You do not pay taxes based on your use of public education or use of any other public service but based on your income and/or wealth.
If you do not make sufficient income as a student to pay taxes or enough taxes to cover the cost of your education your public education is in fact free to you.
What I meant is someone has to pay for it, it’s not free lunch. You’re right that the students don’t pay it through taxes, but someone has to. Myself as a working person do pay for others through taxes
Edit: as people seem to have failed to see my point: I’m glad my taxes help pay for other’s studies
Why do you think OP is not aware that there are costs to be paid but merely disagrees with using sports as a way to pay for it?
You even used the word Utopian. Well most universities are not financed via sports even non public ones. Far from Utopian.
A society which charges students to acquire knowledge values neither.
Because this is literally what he said. He never mentioned sports, just charging in general.
I understand his sentiment, but it’s not practical.
Charging students ≠ paying for the education through taxation as a public good
It must be practical as it is the normal way university works in much of the industrial world
Yes yes go read my other comments.
It is practical; Wholely tax funded universities do not charge students.
This seems inaccurate unless we are considering sums of salaries. If the sports staff makes more than the academic staff this is true. Otherwise your university just sometimes makes bad decisions.
The head coaches typically make 10x the salary of the school pres. they have huge staffs and expensive facilities.
The athletic building in Ann Arbor looks like something NASA would build.
Having graduated and worked for Purdue and NASA, both of these are not the case there. Coaches are 4x president salary, and the training facility (including the new one) doesn’t compare to something like the water training astronaut facility at JSC.
Sports facilities are nice, but they come from a different lot of money and are less funded than, for example, the engineering dept.
Edit: to be extra clear, the sentiment of over paying for sports is fine, but for anyone who graduated for a state school like me, you’re taking pot shots at my degree. And so while I agree with the sentiment, heartily fuck you if you didn’t put in your 11 years of undergrad and grad school at an ivy league university where this isn’t true.
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Haha, that’s funny as hell. Tell me another one. I can see why people like you.
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No, really, tell me another. If you want to be a useless and vacuous asshole, dance for the rest of us. It’s apparently all you have to offer the class.
Class? Go fuck your hat
And people will go to a school because they’re fans of the football team, or send their kids there because they’re fans of the team. To act like the sports programs do nothing to help the university, or their athletes is disingenuous
Maybe that shouldn’t be why someone chooses to go to a university. Maybe their academics and their areas of expertise should be why. It’s supposed to prepare you for a career, not give you a convenient way to watch your favorite team.
