before they were defederated by beehaw due to trolling issues, thenthedonlald showed up, and now exploding heads? what is happening right now?
One of the benefits of a federated social media network is being able to pick an instance that aligns with your own values. If you’d prefer that the admins defederate certain content that isn’t defederated by this instance, have you considered using an instance that more closely aligns with your views? As long as they haven’t defederated this instance, you’ll still be able to interact with any users and communities on this instance that you don’t personally block.
I sincerely hope this doesn’t sound like I’m asking you to leave. One of the reasons I’m on this instance is that everyone is welcome to make an account, which feels very inclusive to me.
yeah, you’re right, the problem was I signed up to any random instance that signups open so I catch up with what’s happening
what’s ironic was that I used Lemmy before back in 2020 (back when I started using the fediverse in general but I never expected Lemmy to take off that fast that much)
I guess I have to relearn from my mistake for the second time.
I really hope we get the ability to migrate accounts from one instance to another, but I realize it’s more complicated than it might seem.
not quite, Pleroma implemented this, though it migrates everything except posts and replies
It would be great to see Lemmy adopt this feature, but until then our accounts are stuck on sh.itjust.works since it’s not a Pleroma server.
Why not just make a new account on a different instance? Are you trying to keep record of your posts? Your subscription? Blocks and friends? Can be an interesting problem for someone with the time and skill to tackle.
I think it would be nice to keep your post history, subscriptions, etc. linked to your account if you decide to switch instances. It could also give other users a way to verify that the new account is legitimate. It’s not an essential feature, more of a nice-to-have.
The admin gave democratic power to the users, the users voted in majority in favor of defederating with the alt-right instance, the admin is waiting for God knows what to respect the will of the users and meanwhile the place is getting overtaken…
Overtaken? Where? I’m subscribed to like the most popular subs in this instance and I haven’t seen anything even slightly related to any of this shit at all.
How many threads about defederation bad when only one vote happened on the subject and it concerned an alt right instance? Always started by people who have dubious post history or no post history.
This instance could then have got defederated by more instances because a T_D community was allowed to exist on it.
Bruh, is the implication here that anyone who is against defederation is pro T_D or pro Nazi?
No, the implication is that all the anti defederation threads were started by people whose post history has pro defederation comments (only when it fits their own values) or comments on alt -right communities. Not all the people against it, but all those who created a thread.
The majority? Excuse you? ShitJustWorks has over 2000 active users, according to the fediverse explorer. No way a majority of those voted for anything.
And where is this overtaking taking place exactly? The Donald community, which was just one guy shitposting with literally zero engagement by the way, got axed already.
You don’t express your right to vote then you support whatever the majority of those who did voted for.
People asked for one instance to be defederated, the vote happened, aye won and now there’s one or two new conversations about how it’s not a good thing to defederate any instances, always from people who, when you check their history, are active on right wing communities, support defederation of other instances, believe conspiracy theories or any other thing that makes them suspicious in their intent.
Nice strawman.
I actually have to agree with you, I don’t like defederation because the way that all dictatorships got into power was by manipulating the flow of information.
OP and the person making the strawman are bad faith actors trying to lie their way to returning to “Web 2.0”, or for the evulz.
Just pointing out what is easily seen by looking at the post history of people
I counted 43 ayes. 43 vs over 2000 active users. That is why those early votes should not and most likely will not be honored.
In that case, it would be sound to cancel the decisions already voted. Namely Post Formats, Only those with an account on this instance should vote on the Agora, and Agora Moderators. If we follow that logic, those few dozens of users shouldn’t have decided for the thousands of others.
Let’s have a vote on rhe number of new users required to cancel all votes and start over! I think it should be a % because otherwise as the place grows we would end up voting again on a much more regular basis.
All in favor say aye
All against say nay
Should we cancel votes on a periodic basis as more people join the instance?
Votes should be held in a way that makes it apparent for users that they are happening, for example by giving a server-wide announcement. They shouls further run for at least a week, if not longer. They also need to be clear in their wording, concise and easy to find.
There’s a sticky in the main community to announce the creation of the Agora and all the kinks about votes are being worked on already.
Not cancel the votes but new people will ofc have the possibility to bring existing rules newly to discussion. It may be totally reasonable to review rules, assuming they can get outdated. And ideally, yes, if it was a real community (real verifyable persons) then any new member must be asked if they had any objections to the existing rules, and given the opportunity to newly discuss them (or add to a constantly ongoing discussion). It just isn’t all too practical in certain circumstances.
Or people should understand that decentralization means that if they don’t agree with the rules on an instance then they can join an instance with rules they agree with and if their current instance goes in a direction they disagree with they can join another instance.
People are just attached to a username and, in this instance’s case, to the cool name.
I’m probably as left as you can get socially and I always advocate for inclusivity, and am against defederation because then you’re causing them to just have an echo chamber and then any unknowing party on that instance is just going to get blasted with only that shit and then you’ve just done the recruiting job for them.
The recruiting job happens outside of their echo chamber, not inside, giving them more platforms (social medias) is what caused a surge in the far right movement.
Well said!
have you considered using an instance that more closely aligns with your views?
This sounds like a lot of homework. I want to interact with people, not worry about whether my chosen server is and will remain acceptable to every clique.
One other late thought on this. Lemmy advocates like this one have told me that “It doesn’t matter which instance you use. You’ll still be able to interact with communities (subreddits) on all other instances, regardless of which instance your account lives.” Doesn’t defederation prevent interaction between two instances, making the above statement false?
I think it would be harmful if defederation became commonplace and fragment the fediverse. On the other hand, I don’t see any issue with there being “niche” instances which have a specific demographic of users they want to serve, and I don’t see any harm in them defederating with other niche instances. Lemmygrad and exploding heads seem like a good example, I’ve heard they’ve defederated each other. I don’t think that affects the overall fediverse too much because the users of those instances would probably block or brigade the other instance anyway. There wouldn’t be any positive interaction between them, so nothing of value has been lost.
Basically, I think it would be ideal if it’s only the “niche” instances that use defederation as a moderation tool, and most instances only defederate for spam or illegal content.
So you’re saying that decentralization would be bad for an intentionally decentralized platform? 🤔
Decentralization good. Fragmentation bad.
Yeah so you want communities to be centralized on major instances that all communicate with each other in unity… So you want Reddit.
No, I clearly said I prefer decentralization. Are you intentionally misinterpreting my posts? I’m getting the sense got aren’t participating in these discussions in good faith.
Defederation doesn’t prevent you from subscribing to the instance that defederated yours, you’ll only be able to interact with people from your own instance when checking content over there.
small and private instances are the key
it only applies when you use your own instance or an instance you can control
It only takes a little bit of homework. When I made the jump I was able to find out pretty easily that beehaw wouldn’t be right for me because of their views that moderators should be heavily involved.
Stop giving that shit more attention than it deserves. No one saw it because it rightly got down voted into obvious but now you’re bringing it up. OP, you’re an idiot
No one saw it because it rightly got down voted into obvious but now you’re bringing it up
there were may posts about this, and it led to some other dramas and fear mongering posts on lemmy
hell, even Mental Outlaw mentioned it here https://youtu.be/bBhDWTZDH9c?t=494
Beehaw will silo themselves and the only way you’ll see their content is to say you love heavy-handed moderation echochambers.
Tried joining it like 5 times - no luck yet. You think saying “I love mods” straightforward would work?
I got in the other day which was nearly a week after I applied. They’re just overwhelmed right now. Pretty sure they’ve only got like 4 people doing the approvals.
They just reject me every time, idk why. They reply pretty fast in a day or two.
You can still subscribe to their communities and even reply if you’re in an instance that’s defederated from them, but you’ll only see comments from the people in your own instance.
You don’t actually get new content outside of your own though from what i can tell. Some beehaw posts pop up every now and then but they’re always from this instances users that likely don’t know that the defederation took place.
All content from people from instances federated with yours it seems from what I can see in my feed.
True, the rest of the point stands and there’s a worrying slow reaction against communities/instances that are actually dangerous
Average fedi drama. Nothing new lol
Aged like milk… So we all get cheese?
get out
Sh.it is turning into a Nazi bar. The alt right trolls saw a weakness and they’re now brigading the hell out of this instance. The Dude seems to be trying to fence sit on extremely vitriolic transphobia and refusing to listen to the trans folks who are trying to warn everyone that nothing good comes from engaging with a certain level of asshole. The only productive way forward at this point is to defederate exploding heads but at this point I don’t think it’s going to happen so I’m just going to grab some popcorn and watch as his great Democratic experiment meets the reality of discourse on the Internet.
Literally where? I’ve been browsing fairly regularly for at least the last week or so and haven’t seen anything even slightly Nazi-ish.
Also the internet is not a physical space, the way the work is not the same.
Literally this.
There was only one guy posting in The Donald.
Sh.itjust.works is overwhelmingly left leaning and is devoid of any conservative discord better yet any nazi content.
If it takes one person speaking out of line to get defederated then we’ve lost the point of why to have a federated system in the first place.
If we start losing our heads whenever someone says something then you negate the 10,000 other post and comments that are made about hobbies, interest, & questions that are helping people.
4chan will remain a back bone of the internet because they keep this at there core. When people hear 4chan they think /pol/ but they forget all the other boards that are on the site. If lemmy doesn’t want to get drowned out in a sea of “what could of been” alternatives then we have to be what reddit wasn’t.
Wait, so who is joining this instance a lot? Do I need to start sorting by local new posts? I haven’t seen much of anything.
It’s honestly just a few trolls given more attention than they deserve. There was a good meme about it but I can’t find it now.
https://sh.itjust.works/post/420582 this one?
Yes, thank you.
Oh. So just like in the regular news…
You just missed the actual Nazi troll in this comment section, mods dealt with them but their display name should still be visible, they posted a swastika flag and a picture of Hitler with their comment.
Are you expecting admins to simultaneously grow huge networks / compete with reddit while preventing your eyes from beholding any bad content for a few minutes? If so I think you may just have unrealistic expectations.
Or maybe you would rather be on a small server that federates with very few other instances and heavily vets each user. Thats the only way I can imagine you getting what you want right now. With time I’m sure fediverse mod tools will mature, but for now I just don’t understand how this is a realistic expectation at all.
Admins are not omnipotent. The sooner you report, the sooner it goes away. Some people are wasting time screen capping and boosting the hate, instead of not feeding the trolls. This was just kind of understood in the early days of the internet. It’s a bit of a wilderness and when hate pops up its not because the admin maliciously wanted it there.
I miss the old days when you could just not feed the trolls. Now people try to silence them, fight trolling with hate disguised as the moral high ground. Many new Lemmy users are so used to the echo chambers and carefully moderated garden of eden that is Reddit. I just wish they would create their own instance, vet the users, and vet who they federated to. But I also predict that if they got big enough they would try to impose their morals on every federated instance.
mods dealt with them
And in less than an hour. So what’s the problem? Even beehaw will get a few trolls who slip through their vetting process.
Mods are kicking them out and the users are down-voting them.
I do not understand why people are giving trolls this much power.
I think education is the answer here, not moderation. People need to learn to stop feeding the trolls. They will go away.
Edit: I’m not saying the comment shouldn’t have been deleted, because I’m glad it was. But trolls are only doing it for the “lulz”, and if you don’t feed them they will go somewhere else.
The Dude seems to be trying to fence sit on extremely vitriolic transphobia and refusing to listen to the trans folks who are trying to warn everyone
That seems to be the consensus but I don’t see where it comes from yet? This latest thing seems to have happened over the course of a day and their last message is 2 days ago.
For the “the donald” thing they appeared after a bit like “hey, catching up on everything, obviously it’s gonna go”. Seems likely the same would happen here? Just feels like a busy regular guy who could use some mods.
Unless there’s some non-public stuff I’m not aware of as a newcomer?
It’s been going on for most of the server’s lifespan. The vote to defederate exploding heads was a week ago now, and afaik the dude hasn’t commented on it yet. Admins for the instance have said “we need more time”.
IDK. I like this account but I think I’m going to close it off and go to another instance, maybe I’ll return if this one gets its “sh.it” together. It’d be one thing to be given a reason for disregarding the vote - then I could decide if I agree or not - but the radio silence feels disrespectful given the nature of the request.
I see, that is concerning.
Reminds me of a shopkeeper who just told a shoplifter known and flagged by other shopkeepers to leave as soon as she came in.
Removed by mod
I said it once and I’ll say it again
the only good Nazis are dead Nazis
Looks like the account was banned. Didn’t take very long, either.
Edit: post removed, but account not banned, AFAIK. I wouldn’t mind a policy of warning before ban, but it seems like the username itself is worth banning.
I know I’m a bit late but they are indeed banned now.
Maybe they were already banned when I made that post? I still can’t tell if they’re banned. I’m using the jerboa app, BTW.
I’m using Firefox on mobile and their user profile has a banned tag.
https://sh.itjust.works/u/hitlerwasright
Honestly, just the account name is enough for an insta-ban even if they only posted cute kitten.Yeah, I logged in to my account on firefox (PC) and there’s a “banned” tag on their profile. On Jerboa their user icon is a red circle with a cross (eg. https://flyclipart.com/thumb2/red-circle-cross-transparent-background-clip-art-674318.png) but given the username it seemed plausible they picked it themselves to symbolize genocide or something.
