People dont realise there are other ways of doing things and think the alternative is just soviet communism.
Liberal capitalism has only been defacto since the 80s/90s and it only benefits the 1%. They dont want the gravy train to stop so are working very hard to keep the masses stupid and compliant.
Liberal capitalism has only been defacto since the 80s/90s
???
I do not understand where you people get these insane ideas
I do not understand where you people get these insane ideas
Not sure what you’re on about mate?
Sure, I’ve explored a bunch of other ways. I wound up agreeing that communism is the correct path, guided by Marxism-Leninism, which has various forms in real life such as the former USSR, Cuba, PRC, DPRK, Vietnam, and Laos.
Capitalism has been in power a lot linger than 30-40 years.
USSR, Cuba, PRC, DPRK, Vietnam, and Laos
Its interesting you’ve picked those as examples when most of them have failed. PRC/Vietnam aren’t exactly Marxist-leninist these days.
Capitalism has been in power a lot linger than 30-40 years
Well an ideology can’t really hold ‘power’ but you’re sort of correct. The reagan-thatcher flavour of capitalism gained popularity in the 80s.
The only one to have “failed” is the USSR. Cuba, the PRC, DPRK, Vietnam, and Laos are all still here today, and all are still socialist. China and Vietnam are absolutely Marxist-Leninist still, not sure what you mean by saying they aren’t.
As for Reagan/Thatcher style neoliberalism, that isn’t something brand new but a further evolution of existing capitalism and liberalism. There’s no such thing as a static, unchanging system, nor one disconnected from its roots.
And what other choice do you have?
To eat an entire jar of poisoned candy - I think
Good analogy, as long as that candy jar is the only food available.
Is it though?
The 70% roll is a one time at birth and you still live.
The average piece of candy is ~60 calories. But let’s call it a 100 and since the average adult needs 1600 kcal on average - you’ve got a ~16% chance of just dropping dead everyday.
After 7 Days, the chance of you still being alive is 29.5%. 30 Days is 0.54%
The theme being you have 1 option and it’s a bad one.
I mean you could always go live in the woods?
Choose a life of crime?
Be homeless and save enough to travel somewhere and never leave.
And the previous candy jar that this replaced had even more death in it.
False, the gap between rich and poor has never been bigger in all of human history.
Based on what? Pure dollar signs? I would absolutely not want to convert to a fiefdom style monarchy, slave state, or aggregaryen commune because my quality of life would go down in all three. I might have a larger percent of the overall Total money but that doesn’t matter if money stops mattering.
You can’t even defend the system based on It’s own merit. You can only declare other, select systems, to be worse. Try and defend capitalism on it’s own merit. Dont claim things from the passage of time or things that could easily have happened under any economic system like “medicine existing.”
Yes, the death there was represented by the wage theft of the ruling capitalist oligarchs.
Of course, the only options are to be ruled over by capitalist oligarchs or be in a slave state/no technology or literal kings instead of metaphorical ones. Nice one!
I might have a larger percent of the overall Total money but that doesn’t matter if money stops mattering
You pretending to be a billionaire? Also, I’m not sure the argument you’re making because it seems to argue my point better than it does yours.
I said that it’s better than what came before you said that was false with nothing to back that up. Now you write t a whole dissertation about me instead of the topic
I see that having to back things up only extends to me and not you.
You’re the one that made it off topic though. You’re the one with the ad hominins. If you want to go back on topic you’ll have to start. I’m not going to sit here and be berated by someone who doesn’t want to actually discuss history.
Left fella has played XCOM
93% success chance has never given me so much anxiety lol
No one has tried pure capitalism before so this argument isn’t in good faith.
Removed by mod
I really think sarcasm needs to be properly marked in text formats.
Reverse italics would work so well.
However I feel like to be truly good sarcasm, it needs to fly over someone’s head.
Sarcasm doesn’t need to decieve, it needs to make a point IMO.
Making it obvious with a /s or similar takes a away from that I feel
We change our vocal intonation when delivering it verbally to help make it obvious. Text lacks those subtleties, so it needs a more direct signifier.
I can see it being important in some cases, but the vast majority are fine
/s doesn’t take away from the point, it’s just an indicator. In this day and age, it’s legitimately impossible to tell otherwise sometimes.
I’ve always been a fan of using an asterisk, which I refer to as starcasm
That works too!
underrated comment; got a good chuckle
You don’t have faith in the audience’s intelligence?
I do, generally, but I also know that people may not get it not through lack of intelligence, but through neurodivergence. At the bare minimum, if someone asks for clarification it should be given.
At the bare minimum, if someone asks for clarification it should be given
How far are you supposed to take the clarification?
Enough that the other party can understand.
Does this apply to authors and artists too?
Should all metaphors have an explanation?
There’s a pretty big difference between literature and art, and online comments.
Poe’s Law exists for a reason. One person’s sarcasm could just as easily be another’s genuine take.
Poe’s Law isn’t even codified in most countries.
Sure, but even the most backwards countries at least have some version of Cole’s Law
Are we talking about poeslaw or coleslaw here?
Even though the view you expressed is a joke, there are people whose real life politics are a joke.
They have a point though.
There are some cogent points in there, but the author fails to realize that the problem with capitalism is the capitalists themselves. The issues they complain about are the inevitable consequence of allowing capitalists to own the means of production rather than the people. Capitalists care less about being patriotic and doing good deeds than they do about their capital holdings, and an investment in corruption and cronyism is one of the safest bets capitalists with sufficient power can make.
The question you should be asking is does the audience have enough faith in some random commenter’s intelligence.
I myself prefer unholy capitalism in lieu of pure capitalism
Life is good. Life isn’t about getting more of what you want. Its about wanting more of what you have.
Start a gratitude journal and rework your brain.
Patrick Bateman shit
I’m so fucking grateful I’m forced by law to subsidize a genocide
Who in the 30% gang here woop woop
/s imagine being poor am I right?
It’s pretty awful, that’s why it feels good to be in the 30%
I am! I love getting a bigger crumb!
Beats getting the smaller one for sure
Like we have a choice with society. I love calling peers bootlickers because they are trying to survive and possibly having more success than you.
Hate the game not the player. What’s the economic equivalent of an incel?
You can accept the material conditions of your life without simping for the people who are actively making it worse you know
Where do we live if we accept the material conditions of our life? Like I work for a very small company that treats us great but that’s still capitalism. So if I reject that do I just move out to the local bus stop?
What are you talking about? You live your life the way you want to live just don’t try to defend the system that want to crush you, is not that hard.
I don’t see how OP or I were defending the system. I’m so confused right now icl.
The fictional guy in the meme is the one defending. “…This is the greatest system possible” they are the bootlickers so I don’t see why OP said “Hate the game not the player.”. No, the fictional guy is not just the player he’s simping for this shit so OP comment doesn’t apply and your reply didn’t made sense either.
By OP I meant whoisearth. It’s seemed to me that the person to reply to them in this thread was saying they were simping and that’s what confused me.
Still not sure why they replied that if they were talking about the meme guy instead.
whoisearth is trying to equate the person who simps for capitalism with a normal person that’s “plays the game” and that what the reply is about, you can live in capitalism(“accept the material conditions”) without defending this shit.
At what point was I defending the system? I make damn good money playing the game and I do my best to lift those around me.
But the system is rigged and I have neither the time or capacity to fix it just like everyone else. It will have to get a lot worse before it gets better.
But to think that you can just airdrop into a different system and not participate in the on youre in? I stand by what I said. Fincel. There i coined the term.
Why are you shadowboxing comments?Nobody said to reject the system or even to try and fix it. Nobody said to go live at a bus stop. I don’t know why you think that’s what we’re saying or if you’re hot off another convo and getting things mixed up but it’s just not at all what we’re saying.
Again, you can accept that capitalism is the system we have without saying it’s the best system ever and you love it. You can get kidnapped without developing stockholm syndrome.
Did I reply to your comment? Why are you replying to me?
I replied further down but I’ll do it here. I’m not saying go live in the woods to escape or anything like that.
You can accept that you are just a cog in the capitalist machine without simping for the very machine that’s crushing you.
I’m not sure how people are getting something else from what I wrote. I thought I was pretty clear. You can accept that you’ve been kidnapped without developing stockholm syndrome.
We do have a choice as long as enough people stand against it, but people keep acting like this is the only way, your comment included.
Chud
Don’t hate the player hate the game
People can hate both. For example, we can hate both Musk for being a democracy hating piece of shit AND the system that enabled him and his like to buy an election. Using a blanket term like that catches all within said game, just to be clear
See and I disagree. Musk is a piece of shit yes but he’s merely playing the game better for a large variety of reasons.
My point being, the game is not the problem. The problem is assholes. This happens in capitalism. It happens in communism. It happens everywhere. The problem is not the system the problem is assholes.
Adam Smith would be rolling in his grave if he saw what became of capitalism.
Hell yeah dude, you’re 12
That’s a rather poor attempt at unironically moralising someone’s lack of morals. I or anyone else could simply declare anything to be “the game” and justify any action through that. Can you not see?
Communism has never actually existed. What we’ve had is fascism with red trim and American propaganda, used to justify their empire and imperial wars.
Capitalism is working exactly as intended. It’s the asset rich, self entitled, slaver/coloniser and workshy attitude of the European aristocracy, expressed in economic form. There’s a reason they dont teach the actual origin of capitalism in school (because to teach it is to critique capitalism and critiquing capitalism is illegal in our western schools) and have to tell a fairytale instead. The idea that a truly free and fair market could ever exist is more utopian than anything you’ll ever hear from any socialist.
Learn what fascism actually is. It’s not just a synonym for “thing I don’t like”
Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian political ideology emphasizing extreme nationalism, a strong central state, militarism, and the subordination of individual rights to the nation’s perceived unity and strength, often led by a dictator. It emerged in early 20th-century Europe.
Sorry that you can’t make communism and fascism interchangeable.
I prefer complaining and screaming loudly while ‘barely surviving’.
To be young again 🤣
Not sure why the downvotes and comments.
Like if we don’t participate in the capitalist system what should we do?
Every motherfucker on here is part of that system unless they build their own phones or PC. Where is Lemmy hosted? More likely on AWS or some other cloud provider.
Where do you buy things from if not capitalist businesses.
The downvotes are from a misunderstanding. I didn’t say to reject capitalism or go live in the woods to escape it or anything like that.
I’m saying you can accept that you are nothing but a cog in the capitalist machine without simping for the very machine that’s crushing you.
People seem to be reading what they want to read in these comments.
I don’t see how the comment you replied to is simping for capitalism though.
I do tend to miss meaning in text so maybe I just don’t see it.
Is there any way to avoid capitalism though
We can move beyond capitalism and into socialism, several countries already do that.
Are there countries where there aren’t people living paycheck to paycheck? I really can’t think of any, unless we count some social safety net things but some capitalist countries have that
Socialist countries generally have better safety nets, like China. Even Cuba, poor and sanctioned as it is, takes better care of its poorest than capitalist countries do.
China has a shitload of people living paycheck to paycheck in miserable conditions. Up until 2014 (and even still) people outside of cities didn’t even get proper social safety nets. Arguably even some capitalist countries are better off there.
I’m sure in theory China will have it better than anyone else at some point and whatnot but when it comes to this meme, it’s not a great example tbh
China eradicated extreme poverty, and has been extremely consistent when it comes to improving quality of life year over year. Imperialist countries may have higher quality of life in some areas, such as the Nordics, but they are regularly deteriorating thanks to capitalism while China is regularly rising thanks to socialism.
Like I said, theoretically it will even better than those capitalist countries, at some point. It’s just not the case yet
Sure, but already it’s better to be poor in China than poor in the US.
So voting? I think it wouldn’t happen in my country where majority of people are stupid enough to keep supporting capitalism
No, revolution. Canadians don’t support capitalism because they are stupid, but because Canada is an imperialist country and as such a large portion are bribed by the spoils of imperialism.
You can kindly ask the candy guy to remove the poisoned one (it makes him a lot of money though) or you can reach into the jar and take it out yourself
While living within it? No.
Your options are too go completely off grid, and homestead. Or to start a revolution and brutally enforce anti capitalist laws.
Even then, you’re bound to some system of trade. But if you can cut yourself off from financial institutions you’re doing pretty well.
Trade isn’t the same thing as capitalism, to be fair. Socialist countries also exist.
Maybe not about your main employment, but I don’t understand why some people feel forced to do some other things:
- They love web advertisements, get attached to specific products, prefer using company names instead of general words
- e.g. “I’m in Zoom call”; just say “a voice/video call” or whatever, why do you have to advertise the company and perpetuate the mentality that “voice calls” → "Zoom calls“ and that there’s only one product people should use
- same with sodas, medicine, browsers, search engines, tissues, copy machines, cleaning products, etc
- Social media posts: they feel the need to advertise themselves (I’m not just talking about work-related stuff); some people can’t just post a nice vacation photo, and need to use it as an opportunity to act as influencers etc
- I would say that some types of “I have to do a bad thing to someone else, otherwise they will do it to me” could be classified as capitalistic as well; no, Bob, no one is forcing you to undercut your coworker (except if you work in a company that uses KPIs etc maliciously)
- The mentality that your hobbies can/should be used for profit, and that profit is the main reason anyone would do something that requires some time to do
- I’ve written some open source stuff (code.gkak.la), and when I mention something I made to some people, their first reaction was “that’s great; so how are you going to sell it?”; and when I try to explain about open source (especially for personal scripts etc), they just can’t comprehend why would anyone do something like that, if not for profit
- I’ve seen the same mentality online, around people being makers (e.g. knitting, 3d printing)
- People adding advertisements to their super low-traffic personal blogs, and people arguing about the “lost income opportunity” or sth (??)
- They love web advertisements, get attached to specific products, prefer using company names instead of general words
… 4 Chan leaking again I see.
Yall really couldn’t come up with a better idea than the ones from 10 years ago? Your dog whistles like fucking fog horn
*completely normal socially progressive post*
the worst liberal you’ve ever met: “errrm this seems a little sus 👀🤓”
Yea I have no idea what Tavi is talking about here, lol.
Since when was 4chan anti-capitalist? What dogwhistles are you talking about here?
More smooth sailor q anon bullshit.
OP is not American and this post is not about America specifically. How would they specifically know about a tweet 9 years ago?
Regardless, OP is an anarchist. Even if the metaphor is the same in both, i’m pretty confident this is a coincidence.
That’s less absurd than your claim seemed to be on the surface, but I haven’t seen anything suspect from OP besides this.
Thanks for letting me know you’re a worthless account that I should block
I don’t disagree with the sentiment, but only in America do people view having a job and ONLY enough money to pay all your bills and keep you alive to be a fate equivalent to death.
Not sure what you mean to be honest. People don’t like being poor where I live either
Having a job that pays your bills isn’t “poor” by global standards.
I don’t think anyone specified that all their bills are being paid. That phrase paycheck to paycheck means they are on the brink or under and they are not really making enough money to cover their lives which is why Americans have such high levels of debt.
Where I live in Mexico people want to be rich and just making enough money to pay bills sucks
Living paycheck to paycheck in the US often means working over full time hours across a few part time jobs and still not always being able to pay all the bills every month. No one should be ok being a wage slave no matter where they live in the world.
enough money to pay all your bills until you have to pay for a medical issue.
