I wonder if this is an US/the rest thing or maybe a meat eater / vegetarian thing. For exact scientific evaluation, please tell in which groups you fit in when commenting.
When the topic food is brought up here or there is always this guy saying “omg you can’t leave your food for 30 minutes on the counter because bacteria you know” (exaggerated) and I don’t get where that sentiment comes from. Many people agree and say you will get food poisoning from that.
First of all, let me tell you I am not an idiot (at least I hope so) and I know how microbiology works - bacteria is everywhere. I don’t doubt your food on the counter will get populated by bacteria, probably more than it would be in the fridge. The question is, is this bad for you?
Now, where I live (central Europe) people are not so fast with that and I wonder why this is. We have a temperate climate which could play a role, so a large portion of the year the temperature is pretty moderate, compared to let’s say south US. But apart from that I don’t really know.
I am a vegetarian, mostly vegan. I am pretty sure it’s not a good idea to leave animal parts out of the fridge, as they are already populated with bad bacteria when you buy them. But for vegetables? Pasta, soup, lasagna? To be honest, I have no shame to leave that stuff on the counter the whole day and even take a spoon from time to time without reheating. Over night I put it of course in the fridge, and in summer when we have 35°C it’s also a different thing. But in general I don’t really care. I know I cannot extrapolate on humanity, only because ai never felt bad after doing this. But honestly, am I an idiot? Or are you just a bit sensitive? Do you assume everybody eats meats?
Really interested in your ideas. Don’t forget to tell the region you are coming from and your diet preferences.
Thank you so much my respected lemmings and pie people
Canadian living in Australia. Omnivore.
Kicker: Food technologist and health inspector. AMA.
Tl;dr: Doesn’t matter if it’s meat or veg. It goes in the fridge. Follow 2h/4h rule. Edit: Should specify certain veg are potentially hazardous as soon as you cut in to them, like leafy greens. All cooked or partially veg that should be treated like meat.
For work, I’m fairly strict in businesses because the food can go anywhere once it’s in the hands on the customer, even in restaurants or at home. You can look at your dine in customers and they all look healthy, but what if they’re not, or where do the leftovers go? Do they take it home after date night to share some with little Bobby or Grandma Jane? In business, you do what you can to keep the food as “clean” as you can.
At home and in food businesses, handwashing is ALWAYS a problem. Food handlers are always touching their faces, phones, hip towel they’ve had on all day, touching a towel they use used to wipe their hands after only rinsing hands in water in the sink, and then touching lettuce for a salad. So even at home, you can cook things to keep bacteria, but is the scoop, container, and your hands clean? Dust, pollen, flies, hairs, etc also carry microbes, and if any of them fall in to food after its been cooked, the bacteria can grow.
It also depends on the type of bacteria, too. Salmonella can infect at an extremely low dose, and Staphylococcus infects at very high doses.
I follow the 2h/4h rule for anything potentially hazardous. Of course, at home, I’m a bit more flexible, usually +/- 1h. If I make myself sick, alright, but there’s no way I’m going to make anyone else sick, so if I’m making food for others, I keep to the strict rules. I’m also generally more risk adverse because the thought of anything involuntary coming out either end makes me sick just thinking about it.
I think the amount of time a food stays out is cultural, and if you grew up with it, your gut will have gotten used to the levels of bacteria. Us westerners generally get sick drinking tap water in certain countries when the locals are fine. I used to live with a Japanese lady for a year, and she knew what I did for a living. She always left rice out all night and ate it the next day. One day, she came to me with it and said “does this smell weird?” and it was a definite yes from me. I’d never leave cooked rice out that long and feel comfortable eating it.
So yeah, Bacillus cereus or whatever bacteria present may not occur all the time, but it does happen. Imagine making large batches and serving to large numbers of unrelated people.
Another thing: Cool foods within 2h to a reasonable temperature (I say 40C is fine) before putting it in the the fridge uncovered. If you put hot food in the fridge, you run the risk of warming up the foods already in the fridge.
Wash your hands.
And use a thermometer. Make sure it’s clean before you use it.
Thanks for listening to my Ted Talk.
I have a thermometer with a metal probe. What’s your view on how to correctly clean it?
At home, I just use soap, water and a scrubber. As an additional step, I also either wipe it down with an alcohol wipe if I have any laying around, or let it sit in freshly boiled water. I’m not crazy about doing this for everything except with undercooked or raw poultry.
At work, everyone is required by law to implement a sanitising step to ensure any residual harmful microbes are destroyed… but I’d never deter anyone at home from doing this ;) I suggest properly diluted bleach (100ppm, or as per label instructions, freshly made), or quaternary ammonium compound (“quat”, also diluted to either 200ppm or as per label). Otherwise, dishwasher.
I’ve always wondered why eggs can be unrefrigerated in some countries and be safe to eat for weeks…
This has to do with how the eggs are sanitized before they’re sold. In places where you need to keep them refrigerated, they’ve been washed in such a way that a protective layer has been removed. In countries that keep their eggs on the counter, this has not been done.
https://eggsafety.org/us-refrigerate-eggs-countries-dont/
Yeah, that’s huge. Outbreaks are becoming more and more common. In Canada and USA, it’s a requirement to keep eggs in the fridge, and we just assume chickens = Salmonella, which is also why there is such stress on washing your hands thoroughly after handling raw chicken, cut chicken on a designated poultry-only cutting board, etc.
I think some countries will do a sanitising wash, some just wash with water.
In Australia, Salmonella infections have been increasing, so it’s strongly recommended to keep eggs refrigerated. It’s not written in to law, but we’re a little behind here on a few things. Also consider the differences in handling of eggs at a supermarket, at a farmer’s market, or someone selling excess eggs outside their home.
Another thing that needs to be considered: Egg shells are porous. In a supermarket, temperatures don’t fluctuate as much as it would at home or in a restaurant, so they’re not going to sweat (moisture = nice spot for bacteria to grow). In restaurants and at home, if they’re not in the fridge, eggs will be subject to sweating (think hot kitchen during the day, cool kitchen at night; flies, cockroaches, rodents, unclean human hands, etc.) I’ve seen eggs being sold out of eskies on the side of the road, and I avoid those. The Aussie sun is HOT.