You know, at one point during this war, I thought, “they’re compelled to service, most of them probably don’t wanna be there, and we can’t hold them responsible for the orders of the state.”
Then I saw some interviews with some IDF soldiers. Then I saw more interviews. And it’s the same in recent interviews: they are happy to be there, and they absolutely love genociding Palestinians.
Even for the ones compelled to be there who have little (not no) choice, it doesn’t mean the IDF isn’t a terrorist organization. Other terrorist groups use force to get soldiers, yet we don’t pull our punches calling them out.
There are older documentaries where older IDF recount war crimes and being proud of it… this been going since the creation of this project … the two main forces that created the IDF are UK Registered terrorist organization.
If I was a news agency with an agenda I wouldn’t be broadcasting the interviews that are negative either. Those you will find on foreign TV channels, 10-20 years from now after those who are currently serving finish their mandatory service and immigrate elsewhere. Every once in a while some event happens which becomes difficult to cover up. Like the Pilot Letters from 2003 and 2023, but it is the exception rather then the norm.
Even if it were the case that they didn’t want to be there, “just following orders” is not an acceptable excuse for committing a genocide. The morally correct thing to do if you’re compelled to service in the IDF is to refuse and face the consequences, because they cannot be worse than the moral injury of being tasked with the murder of innocent children.
If you’re forced to live in Israel you won’t be publicly voicing your opinions if they’re against the norm. One of the worst insults is “deserter” for those that did not wish to serve and “leftist” if you go against the murder of innocent people. Sadly being one or the other means problems for you down the road when trying to find a job and generally living a life here. It’s a small country, word gets around quickly and you still have to live here if you don’t have any other citizenship.
I didn’t just see one interview. It was dozens of interviews over the last 20 or so years. If it was just one piece, I would probably agree with you (as I have clearly stated multiple times). And I’m sure there are members of the IDF who are not there willingly and do not support its goals.
But I have a preponderance of evidence which supports my position.
My point is, again, that IDF soldiers are far more loyal, willing, and supportive of the socio/geopolitical goals of Zionist Israel than soldiers of the Wehrmacht were supportive of the Nazi Germany.
The identity politics of being a Zionist are far more… all-encompassing then were the identity politics of being a Nazi.
Stop defending Nazis just because you are extremely ignorant of historical facts and contemporaneous attitudes.
Your evidence supports that there are members of the IDF who are enthusiastically engaged with what they’re doing. I am not debating that- i think you’re right.
But it’s important to remember this absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Just because you haven’t seen interviews of IDF members objecting to what they are doing does not mean those members do not exist. I would expect the IDF to have systems in place to minimize the external visibility if any such objections, which makes a generalization like that dangerous.
I already conceded that there are very likely, in fact, I’m sure of it, members of the IDF that are not there willingly and do not support its goals. The point I’m trying to make is that the proportion IDF soldiers that support Zionism is much higher than the number of supporters of Nazis in the Wehrmacht.
Many members of the Wehrmacht were fighting for Germany, not the Nazis. Every single member of the IDF, except for perhaps a few exceptions, are absolutely fighting for Zionism.
It would be a logical fallacy to jump to such a conclusion without interviewing a randomly sampled and much larger population. It is possible you may be correct or incorrect, but you are jumping to a conclusion about a topic with insufficient data to do so.
It would be a logical fallacy to jump to such a conclusion without interviewing a randomly sampled and much larger population.
Except that it is. And I’ve told you that, several times.
It’s like you have ignored every comment I have made so far. For the IDF of soldiers, there is a huge amount of pluralistic evidence to support this. And for the Wehrmacht soldiers, there is a huge amount of historical evidence that supports this, too.
You don’t wanna be convinced, you just wanna argue a single point and ignore anything that is contrary to it.
All of this information is very publicly available. Since you are so adverse to taking my word for it, go look at these facts up for yourself.
As you are clearly sea lining rather than arguing in good faith, I’m going to block you now.
There’s been multiple polls that show the vast majority of Israelis are behind the genocide of the Palestinians. To think the IDF thinks anything differently is absurd. These people arguing with you are living in a fantasy world.
My friend, it’s really important that you get the subjects correct. We were talking about Israeli soldiers here, and even if you generalize, Israelis. We are not talking about Jewish people on the whole.
The wehrmacht had tons of people forcibly drafted into it from occupied territories like Poland or Ukraine. People who often defected to the allies to fight against them later on. You are thinking of the SS.
I don’t know if that’s really a counterpoint. The Nazis started as a terrorist organization.
And I’d argue that, based on available historical evidence, a lot of the Wehrmacht were fighting for Germany, not the Nazis (a subtle distinction, I know, but I think an important one in this context), whereas IDF soldiers, according to many interviews with them, are definitely fighting for both Israel and Zionism. I would argue that IDF soldiers are far more committed to their geo/sociopolitical cause than were the typical soldier in the Wehrmacht.
The IDF’s fascist zeal is more akin to that of the SS. Although, as an organization, the US Department of Immigration and Customs Enforcement is far more similar to the Nazi SS.
True, but they evolved into something more terrible than that, just like Zionist militias did in 1948. I feel that calling the IDF a terrorist organization, while catchy, is an understatement of the depth and scale of evil they’re committing and have committed. They’re closer to the raping, pillaging and murderous hordes of Genghis Khan.
Wrong. They were sworn to Germany, and nothing else.
The vast majority of them also joined so they didn’t starve to death. And in the second half of the war, it was forced conscription. They said what they had to say not to get shot in the head. While I don’t doubt that many, even most, were loyal to the Nazis, a lot of of them were not. a great many joined because they had no other choice.
Wrong. They were sworn to Germany, and nothing else.
This was the oath they took in the Wehrmacht:
„Ich schwöre bei Gott diesen heiligen Eid, daß ich dem Führer des Deutschen Reiches und Volkes, Adolf Hitler, dem Obersten Befehlshaber der Wehrmacht, unbedingten Gehorsam leisten und als tapferer Soldat bereit sein will, jederzeit für diesen Eid mein Leben einzusetzen.“
“I swear by God this holy oath, that I shall render unconditional obedience to the Leader of the German Reich and people,
Adolf Hitler, supreme commander of the armed forces, and that as a brave soldier I shall at all times be prepared to give my life for this oath.”
They were sworn to Hitler and to Hitler only. Google Führereid.
Cool. I get that you love fascist colonizers, but I’m pointing out how that has not ever worked out, and the reasons why. But keep goose stepping in. Apparently that’s very popular nowadays.
This does not, in anyway, to get my point. But thanks for googling that for me.
The IDF is a terrorist organization. Prove me wrong.
You know, at one point during this war, I thought, “they’re compelled to service, most of them probably don’t wanna be there, and we can’t hold them responsible for the orders of the state.”
Then I saw some interviews with some IDF soldiers. Then I saw more interviews. And it’s the same in recent interviews: they are happy to be there, and they absolutely love genociding Palestinians.
Fuck the IDF
Even for the ones compelled to be there who have little (not no) choice, it doesn’t mean the IDF isn’t a terrorist organization. Other terrorist groups use force to get soldiers, yet we don’t pull our punches calling them out.
There are older documentaries where older IDF recount war crimes and being proud of it… this been going since the creation of this project … the two main forces that created the IDF are UK Registered terrorist organization.
If I was a news agency with an agenda I wouldn’t be broadcasting the interviews that are negative either. Those you will find on foreign TV channels, 10-20 years from now after those who are currently serving finish their mandatory service and immigrate elsewhere. Every once in a while some event happens which becomes difficult to cover up. Like the Pilot Letters from 2003 and 2023, but it is the exception rather then the norm.
Even if it were the case that they didn’t want to be there, “just following orders” is not an acceptable excuse for committing a genocide. The morally correct thing to do if you’re compelled to service in the IDF is to refuse and face the consequences, because they cannot be worse than the moral injury of being tasked with the murder of innocent children.
They aren’t going to let you see the unenthusiastic ones.
They don’t censor foreign internet in Israel. Protesters of the regime can be heard from on the outside, there just aren’t that many of them.
If you’re forced to live in Israel you won’t be publicly voicing your opinions if they’re against the norm. One of the worst insults is “deserter” for those that did not wish to serve and “leftist” if you go against the murder of innocent people. Sadly being one or the other means problems for you down the road when trying to find a job and generally living a life here. It’s a small country, word gets around quickly and you still have to live here if you don’t have any other citizenship.
I didn’t just see one interview. It was dozens of interviews over the last 20 or so years. If it was just one piece, I would probably agree with you (as I have clearly stated multiple times). And I’m sure there are members of the IDF who are not there willingly and do not support its goals.
But I have a preponderance of evidence which supports my position.
My point is, again, that IDF soldiers are far more loyal, willing, and supportive of the socio/geopolitical goals of Zionist Israel than soldiers of the Wehrmacht were supportive of the Nazi Germany.
The identity politics of being a Zionist are far more… all-encompassing then were the identity politics of being a Nazi.
Stop defending Nazis just because you are extremely ignorant of historical facts and contemporaneous attitudes.
Your evidence supports that there are members of the IDF who are enthusiastically engaged with what they’re doing. I am not debating that- i think you’re right.
But it’s important to remember this absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Just because you haven’t seen interviews of IDF members objecting to what they are doing does not mean those members do not exist. I would expect the IDF to have systems in place to minimize the external visibility if any such objections, which makes a generalization like that dangerous.
Important point
Genocide is bad and you are right
I already conceded that there are very likely, in fact, I’m sure of it, members of the IDF that are not there willingly and do not support its goals. The point I’m trying to make is that the proportion IDF soldiers that support Zionism is much higher than the number of supporters of Nazis in the Wehrmacht.
Many members of the Wehrmacht were fighting for Germany, not the Nazis. Every single member of the IDF, except for perhaps a few exceptions, are absolutely fighting for Zionism.
It would be a logical fallacy to jump to such a conclusion without interviewing a randomly sampled and much larger population. It is possible you may be correct or incorrect, but you are jumping to a conclusion about a topic with insufficient data to do so.
Except that it is. And I’ve told you that, several times.
It’s like you have ignored every comment I have made so far. For the IDF of soldiers, there is a huge amount of pluralistic evidence to support this. And for the Wehrmacht soldiers, there is a huge amount of historical evidence that supports this, too.
You don’t wanna be convinced, you just wanna argue a single point and ignore anything that is contrary to it.
All of this information is very publicly available. Since you are so adverse to taking my word for it, go look at these facts up for yourself.
As you are clearly sea lining rather than arguing in good faith, I’m going to block you now.
Have a wonderful time go fuck yourself
If your sample is heavily biased, then the data from it is worthless.
The beautiful irony here is that you are believing in and spreading IDF propaganda for them.
There’s been multiple polls that show the vast majority of Israelis are behind the genocide of the Palestinians. To think the IDF thinks anything differently is absurd. These people arguing with you are living in a fantasy world.
I still think it’s basically brainwshing by government propaganda.
Brainwashing can only go so far. At some point, (such as targeting civilian children) any sane soldier will crack and say “No”.
Probably. I’d like some further analysis on that, but I am definitely inclined to agree with you.
Brainwashed by religion and nationalism
Both of them absolutely were. That’s not what I’m arguing here.
deleted by creator
My friend, it’s really important that you get the subjects correct. We were talking about Israeli soldiers here, and even if you generalize, Israelis. We are not talking about Jewish people on the whole.
Counterpoint: The IDF isn’t a terrorist organization; they’re the Wehrmacht.
The wehrmacht had tons of people forcibly drafted into it from occupied territories like Poland or Ukraine. People who often defected to the allies to fight against them later on. You are thinking of the SS.
I don’t know if that’s really a counterpoint. The Nazis started as a terrorist organization.
And I’d argue that, based on available historical evidence, a lot of the Wehrmacht were fighting for Germany, not the Nazis (a subtle distinction, I know, but I think an important one in this context), whereas IDF soldiers, according to many interviews with them, are definitely fighting for both Israel and Zionism. I would argue that IDF soldiers are far more committed to their geo/sociopolitical cause than were the typical soldier in the Wehrmacht.
The IDF’s fascist zeal is more akin to that of the SS. Although, as an organization, the US Department of Immigration and Customs Enforcement is far more similar to the Nazi SS.
True, but they evolved into something more terrible than that, just like Zionist militias did in 1948. I feel that calling the IDF a terrorist organization, while catchy, is an understatement of the depth and scale of evil they’re committing and have committed. They’re closer to the raping, pillaging and murderous hordes of Genghis Khan.
Yes, your explanation is more succinct. I was just trying to add a bit of historical context and comparative analysis.
The Wehrmacht was sworn to Hitler and to nothing else.
Wrong. They were sworn to Germany, and nothing else.
The vast majority of them also joined so they didn’t starve to death. And in the second half of the war, it was forced conscription. They said what they had to say not to get shot in the head. While I don’t doubt that many, even most, were loyal to the Nazis, a lot of of them were not. a great many joined because they had no other choice.
It’s a historical detail that is worth mentioning
This was the oath they took in the Wehrmacht:
“I swear by God this holy oath, that I shall render unconditional obedience to the Leader of the German Reich and people, Adolf Hitler, supreme commander of the armed forces, and that as a brave soldier I shall at all times be prepared to give my life for this oath.”
They were sworn to Hitler and to Hitler only. Google Führereid.
Cool. I get that you love fascist colonizers, but I’m pointing out how that has not ever worked out, and the reasons why. But keep goose stepping in. Apparently that’s very popular nowadays.
This does not, in anyway, to get my point. But thanks for googling that for me.
I’m definitely blocking you. I don’t like Nazis.
Reported. I am not a Nazi, nor do I support the IDF or Netanyahu, but you were factually and provably wrong. Free Palestine.