There is no “being careful with phrasing”. You and your cohort essentially start every sentence with “Men…” this or “Men…” that. It doesn’t matter what point you think you’re trying to make. You automatically invalidate it by arguing about all men and disregarding individuality. That’s misandry. Get it in your head.
my cohort? lmfao dude. I don’t KNOW every individual man but I have to be careful no matter who it is. that’s not misandry. men are scared of being lonely or perceived as threatening or being made fun of. women are scared of being raped and killed. nobody called you a rapist, dude, but we can’t trust blindly.
Then why not talk about rapists ? It’s so easy to exclude people who aren’t part of that group, just name and shame the damn group instead of a super-category they belong to.
how am I to know whether any given man is a rapist? we’re talking about men here because women need to be careful around all men. I don’t hate men, I generally love them; nobody wants to have to be this careful. Andrew Tate being as popular as he was only scares people more. because of all this, many women have given up on looking for male partners. I can’t really blame them; in many places, the risk is high.
Yes, but you’re talking about IRL situations. Why can’t you differentiate online? It’s so easy to say that you need to be careful because of rapists. Instead you spread a message of being careful around all men. It’s disingenuous, and it leads to ostracization and a loneliness epidemic like the one that’s currently and actively fuelling the movements you despise.
you’re gonna blame women’s traumatic responses for that? no woman made Andrew Tate say or do any of the things he did. he made his own choices. I get that men are lonely, and it sucks, but women lowering their guards puts them at serious risk. that’s why they talk about needing to be careful around men. again, we cannot tell who is and is not a rapist by looking at them. if men want to stop being lonely, the first step is to break down the walls between each other. women cuddle with their friends, share their closest feelings, cry, and find emotional intimacy in each other when they can’t turn to men. men need to do the same when they can’t turn to women. this is not an easy problem to solve, as men have been taught to repress their feelings, and telling women to just put themselves at risk so men don’t have to be lonely is unfair. it’s not our job to fix broken men, and it never has been. they need therapy. when it is safer for women, they will stop acting so cautious. until then, you will unfortunately have to deal with women coming across cold and aloof because they don’t want to risk their safety. it is always possible to overcome this in individual relationships, but the broader pattern won’t change as long as women feel unsafe.
You’re once again taking my words, which have always been about this online discussion and the words being used in it and using it to paint an inaccurate portrait that I do not care about women’s trauma irl. Patently untrue. I care about how people jump at every opportunity to disparage the other sex online through offensive generalisations, then hide it behind a veneer of thin justifications, such as “you wouldn’t feel hurt if you weren’t the target”, or “see? you’re proving our point that all men are evil and suck”, or whatever the argument of the day is.
That’s my problem. It’s a bandwagon effect that won’t stop because the group being the target of the accusations online is immediately targeted when they defend themselves. See a familiar pattern? This is why it needs to stop. You claim to want empathy from both sides, well, it starts with stopping the us vs. them nonsense and aggressive generalising about all men.
There’s a little thing called self-reinforcing positive attitudes, but without breaking the cycle you feed the opposite behaviour.
I never generalized about all men. I’m not treating this as oppositional, just acknowledging real social forces. I never said all men are evil and suck, nor did anyone. the original post said that men are not being raised in a way that makes them desirable as adults, and that’s true. it doesn’t mean no man is desirable. you’re the one taking that personally. there is no bandwagon here, just women talking about their experiences and it predictably getting derailed. there’s no us vs them, this can and should be a productive thing to talk about for everyone involved, but most men are very prone to getting defensive, so all that happens is an argument.
in online spaces, men always have an issue with women being “overly general” whenever we refer to general trends, patterns, and even our own personal experiences. if men want to complain about the cold treatment they get from women, they can and that’s valid, because I’ve been on the receiving end of that and it sucks. but they don’t seem to talk about it separately, it’s always an either-or, the idea that only one of these sides can be valid, and they always try to speak over women or use their feelings as a reason women need to stop talking about theirs.
There is no “being careful with phrasing”. You and your cohort essentially start every sentence with “Men…” this or “Men…” that. It doesn’t matter what point you think you’re trying to make. You automatically invalidate it by arguing about all men and disregarding individuality. That’s misandry. Get it in your head.
my cohort? lmfao dude. I don’t KNOW every individual man but I have to be careful no matter who it is. that’s not misandry. men are scared of being lonely or perceived as threatening or being made fun of. women are scared of being raped and killed. nobody called you a rapist, dude, but we can’t trust blindly.
Then why not talk about rapists ? It’s so easy to exclude people who aren’t part of that group, just name and shame the damn group instead of a super-category they belong to.
how am I to know whether any given man is a rapist? we’re talking about men here because women need to be careful around all men. I don’t hate men, I generally love them; nobody wants to have to be this careful. Andrew Tate being as popular as he was only scares people more. because of all this, many women have given up on looking for male partners. I can’t really blame them; in many places, the risk is high.
Yes, but you’re talking about IRL situations. Why can’t you differentiate online? It’s so easy to say that you need to be careful because of rapists. Instead you spread a message of being careful around all men. It’s disingenuous, and it leads to ostracization and a loneliness epidemic like the one that’s currently and actively fuelling the movements you despise.
you’re gonna blame women’s traumatic responses for that? no woman made Andrew Tate say or do any of the things he did. he made his own choices. I get that men are lonely, and it sucks, but women lowering their guards puts them at serious risk. that’s why they talk about needing to be careful around men. again, we cannot tell who is and is not a rapist by looking at them. if men want to stop being lonely, the first step is to break down the walls between each other. women cuddle with their friends, share their closest feelings, cry, and find emotional intimacy in each other when they can’t turn to men. men need to do the same when they can’t turn to women. this is not an easy problem to solve, as men have been taught to repress their feelings, and telling women to just put themselves at risk so men don’t have to be lonely is unfair. it’s not our job to fix broken men, and it never has been. they need therapy. when it is safer for women, they will stop acting so cautious. until then, you will unfortunately have to deal with women coming across cold and aloof because they don’t want to risk their safety. it is always possible to overcome this in individual relationships, but the broader pattern won’t change as long as women feel unsafe.
You’re once again taking my words, which have always been about this online discussion and the words being used in it and using it to paint an inaccurate portrait that I do not care about women’s trauma irl. Patently untrue. I care about how people jump at every opportunity to disparage the other sex online through offensive generalisations, then hide it behind a veneer of thin justifications, such as “you wouldn’t feel hurt if you weren’t the target”, or “see? you’re proving our point that all men are evil and suck”, or whatever the argument of the day is.
That’s my problem. It’s a bandwagon effect that won’t stop because the group being the target of the accusations online is immediately targeted when they defend themselves. See a familiar pattern? This is why it needs to stop. You claim to want empathy from both sides, well, it starts with stopping the us vs. them nonsense and aggressive generalising about all men.
There’s a little thing called self-reinforcing positive attitudes, but without breaking the cycle you feed the opposite behaviour.
I never generalized about all men. I’m not treating this as oppositional, just acknowledging real social forces. I never said all men are evil and suck, nor did anyone. the original post said that men are not being raised in a way that makes them desirable as adults, and that’s true. it doesn’t mean no man is desirable. you’re the one taking that personally. there is no bandwagon here, just women talking about their experiences and it predictably getting derailed. there’s no us vs them, this can and should be a productive thing to talk about for everyone involved, but most men are very prone to getting defensive, so all that happens is an argument.
in online spaces, men always have an issue with women being “overly general” whenever we refer to general trends, patterns, and even our own personal experiences. if men want to complain about the cold treatment they get from women, they can and that’s valid, because I’ve been on the receiving end of that and it sucks. but they don’t seem to talk about it separately, it’s always an either-or, the idea that only one of these sides can be valid, and they always try to speak over women or use their feelings as a reason women need to stop talking about theirs.