A Maryland police officer was convicted on Friday of charges that he joined a mob’s Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol and hurled a smoke bomb and other objects at police officers guarding a tunnel entrance.
U.S. District Judge Trevor McFadden heard two days of trial testimony without a jury this week before he found Montgomery County Police Officer Justin Lee guilty of two felonies and three misdemeanors. The judge, who also acquitted Lee of two other misdemeanors, is scheduled to sentence him on Nov. 22.
Lee, 26, ignited and threw a smoke bomb into the tunnel entrance on the Capitol’s Lower West Terrace, where a mob of rioters attacked a group of outnumbered police officers. The device struck a police officer’s riot shield and filled the mouth of the tunnel with a large plume of smoke, prosecutors said.
Understand that I make the following claim only to prove the fallacy in both: Racists will utilize this exact same argument — and HAVE with me — that the “bad apples” of inner-city gang violence leads to the fact that the entire culture is shit because even the “good apples,” don’t have enough clout to change the tide.
And yet, while true that crime is higher in these areas, it skirts the big picture as to the why, which in the case of inner-city violence it revolves around trans-generational discrimination, poor education, and simply population density — and similarly the WHY of cops having predominantly shitty cultures revolves around bigger issues and not so much the, “good cop didn’t stand up enough to the bad cops” I suspect.
The problem is you can criticize the wider problem of poor policing and demand massive reforms and cultural shifts without applying needless stereotypes cast on those who are trying to make a difference in the culture — simply because the “good” cops do not always out-number the bad cops in districts. So under this “ACAB” movement, it tends to have the opposite effect and lead to people who might be good cops to steer away from that career because they know they’ll just be listed as another bastard because they didn’t fight hard enough against the cultural shift… So ultimately, where does change reasonably, practically begin?
Not everyone is in a gang (and I’ll leave the gang part out of this, because that IS racist, along with the whole inner-city bit, but that’s a separate conversation on how laws were written to specifically allow cops to target racial groups)
But anyone who is a cop is in the gang that is the police.
No, the two things are not remotely equitable. One is about a group of chosen profession, the other is an entire racial group being associated with crime. That’s an argument that’s as flimsy as a wet paper bag.
Naturally in my example, the inner-city gang are the bad cops and the inner-city family and community leaders trying to make a difference are the “good cops” who just can’t seem to budge the numbers. If we were to use the logic applied by ACAB, then it’s all futile and any attempt at cultural change is pointless because change hasn’t occurred yet or fast enough.
I think they are quite comparable. Both rely on a) an extremely obvious misrepresentation of the root of the problem, and b) a fallacious stereotyping of a group based on a subset of the population.
So one set of cops who are all cops, and an unrelated set of people where the only defining factor is race.
Right. Its a racist, nonsensical argument from the start, that isn’t remotely comparable.
Nope. Only one does. Modern policing is the root of the problem, from the way they were formed and structured.
Negative, only one is fallacious, the racist argument. As modern policing is the root of the problem, all police are complicit in its continuation.
Your argument is a total crock.
I’ll ask you to try again and re-analyze and consider more from my perspective what you believe I’m actually trying to say as opposed to crafting a straw-man. At the moment, it seems you’re intentionally trying. I’m hoping your comprehension is not this poor, because if it is then there is no point in progressing further.
Clearly dismissive, but not from a position of substance. Awfully bad-faith, and the lack of substantive rebuttal reinforces that I’m making a good albeit uncomfortable point.
There is nothing to consider. The premise is either racism, or a complete misunderstanding of the issue, for either “gang violence” or “cops” respectively.
So no, I won’t consider from your perspective, because the basis is flawed. There is nothing for me to comment on about a completely incorrect comparison.
Exactly. Both examples utilize the same fallacy that racists use. Thank you for proving my point.
Since you’re just making straw-men in bad faith, I figure I might as well do the same. See how this works?
No, you’re misunderstanding. One applies (in-group - cops. Unified group by nature of policing). Other group, unrelated, only way to relate them is racism.
Listen, your lack of understanding here is not my problem. If you’re being honest and don’t understand the issue, then I’d recommend you look at the history of policing, how its shaped modern policing, the current methods of policing being employed and how they are used to target racial groups (including and especially gang laws, like three strikes laws), and then you should understand the difference and can shut racists down.
If all you’re going to do is keep repeating that you think its valid as an argument, then there isn’t much point since you’re just ignoring everything I say anyway.
Enjoy your day.
No, clearly you’re misunderstanding. Clearly we related that entire group by where they lived and the cultural community from which they reside: the inner-city. Many statistics identify this population of, “the inner-city.”
You’re utilizing a classic example of profiling and stereotyping by judging all based on a grouping of… Ethnicity, religion, region, profession – It doesn’t matter the what, what matters is the statistical fallacy you employ to advance your prejudice.
So are all cops bastards? No. It’s a simple question with a simple answer. Even MCAB would make far more sense.
I have a sneaking suspicion I understand the issue more throughly than you do, so let’s just put aside that condescension-card pissing-contest, shall we? How about we just begin with resorting to less obvious logical fallacies?
And thank you. You as well.