But of course everyone else wanted to over-engineer it, so you get proposed solutions like encoding messages in the DNA of plants, and color-changing cats with an accompanying viral song that no one’s ever heard of twelve years later… 🤦♀️
Like, guys, if people today can’t even figure out what it means, then it’s not a universal and enduring message.
And then some of the suggestions would only serve to make it a glaringly obvious archaeological dig site.
Skull and crossbones is about as universal as you can get. Maybe some atomic diagrams and radiation symbols, and written warnings in as many languages as possible, just in case people still understand them. And a giant slab that someone could only drill through deliberately, requiring heavy equipment.
I can’t believe these were supposedly some of the smartest people in the world, and yet they made the mistakes of assuming that future civilizations would be hyperintelligent and thoroughly inquisitive, while also not understanding any symbols from our era and being likely to avoid areas designed to seem ominous. As if egyptologists today respect the warnings on ancient tombs.
And yet they overlooked the skull and crossbones because it seemed too obvious. The whole point is that it’s supposed to be obvious!!!
Atomic diagrams would be good for advanced societies, but societies in the bronze age or middle age advancment are the ones that we have to worry about. They won’t understand atomic phyiscs but they are capable of excavation. Any fancy symbols might just intrigue them.
I think they underestimated the intelligence of possible future societies. Any society advanced enough to excavate this will be intelligent enough to ask “what does this symbol logically mean”. They won’t be limited to the ‘bad-vibes’ that the current ideas are heavy on (language aside).
Then I guess I just don’t understand your point. Obviously they’d assume a “middle age or prior” society when coming up with solutions to “how can we make sure a middle ages or prior society understands the danger of nuclear material”.
But that’s following the assumption that a society far into the future will be at the level of advancement of a middle-age society or prior. It’s not universal if anyone from a modern or post-modern level of advancement would look at it and think “that’s just primitive superstition.”
A skull and crossbones is a pretty universal symbol of death. As long as a future society is humanoid, or at least familiar with humanoids, they can see that and recognize what it means, regardless of their level of advancement.
Some mythology that speaks of ancient ancestors who created magical rocks that can melt your flesh off at a distance so that they could turn the daylight on inside isn’t likely to deter anyone but the most gullible and least inquisitive.
It also assumes that such a made-up religion would survive longer than any extant languages and scientific knowledge, which is absurd.
You do understand that a modern or post-modern society will have their own tools to detect radiation? We don’t need to optimize for them, we need to optimize for those people who haven’t developed that far.
A skull and crossbones is a pretty universal symbol of death.
Oh yeah? Have you seen any research demonstrating that people unfamiliar with that iconography associate it universally with death? Or are you assuming they would, since you’ve seen it associated with death your whole life due to pirate media etc?
Your solution is barely above “why don’t they just write NUCLEAR STUFF, DANGER?”
Some mythology that speaks of ancient ancestors who created magical rocks that can melt your flesh off at a distance so that they could turn the daylight on inside isn’t likely to deter anyone but the most gullible and least inquisitive.
Yeah, not like millions of people have been following such rules for thousands of years. Much better to use iconography they probably won’t know or understand.
It also assumes that such a made-up religion would survive longer than any extant languages and scientific knowledge, which is absurd.
We LITERALLY have religions that survived their languages & scientific knowledge dying off, and most of our modern religious ideas are simply remixes of previous ones. You couldn’t be more wrong if you tried.
You do understand that a modern or post-modern society will have their own tools to detect radiation? We don’t need to optimize for them, we need to optimize for those people who haven’t developed that far.
Yes, and do you realize that not everyone in a nuclear-capable society wanders around with a geiger counter? If an archaeologist digs up a plate with an atomic diagram of a radioactive isotope, they would at least know “hey, maybe I should get a geiger counter before digging any further.”
Oh yeah? Have you seen any research demonstrating that people unfamiliar with that iconography associate it universally with death?
Dude, when humans die, they decompose, leaving behind a skull and bones. I’m not making any assumptions based on “pirate media.” Pirates used the symbol because it’s universally recognizably as implying “death” or “danger.” It’s highly arrogant and insulting for you to think any other culture wouldn’t be capable of drawing that connection.
Yeah, not like millions of people have been following such rules for thousands of years.
And modern society, particularly in scientifically-minded sectors, already view that as archaic superstition. How are you going to convince enough nuclear engineers to join your cult in order to maintain an unbroken apostolic succession for millennia?
We LITERALLY have religions that survived their languages & scientific knowledge dying off, and most of our modern religious ideas are simply remixes of previous ones.
Name one religion that has survived its original language dying off. Reconstructions such as neopaganism don’t count, and neither do languages that can still be translated.
Also, if the nuclear radiation cult’s mythology gets “remixed” by a new religion, then it loses the intent of preserving a warning for future generations. Do you honestly believe modern christianity has maintained the same intent as the original?
Yeah, Carl Sagan was like “skull and crossbones”
But of course everyone else wanted to over-engineer it, so you get proposed solutions like encoding messages in the DNA of plants, and color-changing cats with an accompanying viral song that no one’s ever heard of twelve years later… 🤦♀️
Like, guys, if people today can’t even figure out what it means, then it’s not a universal and enduring message.
And then some of the suggestions would only serve to make it a glaringly obvious archaeological dig site.
Skull and crossbones is about as universal as you can get. Maybe some atomic diagrams and radiation symbols, and written warnings in as many languages as possible, just in case people still understand them. And a giant slab that someone could only drill through deliberately, requiring heavy equipment.
I can’t believe these were supposedly some of the smartest people in the world, and yet they made the mistakes of assuming that future civilizations would be hyperintelligent and thoroughly inquisitive, while also not understanding any symbols from our era and being likely to avoid areas designed to seem ominous. As if egyptologists today respect the warnings on ancient tombs.
And yet they overlooked the skull and crossbones because it seemed too obvious. The whole point is that it’s supposed to be obvious!!!
Atomic diagrams would be good for advanced societies, but societies in the bronze age or middle age advancment are the ones that we have to worry about. They won’t understand atomic phyiscs but they are capable of excavation. Any fancy symbols might just intrigue them.
I think they underestimated the intelligence of possible future societies. Any society advanced enough to excavate this will be intelligent enough to ask “what does this symbol logically mean”. They won’t be limited to the ‘bad-vibes’ that the current ideas are heavy on (language aside).
They were really counting on a middle-age level of advancement when they suggested making a new religion with a priesthood and its own mythology…
Hm? All those things existed long before the middle ages. They even existed in prehistory.
Okay, so I should have said “middle age or prior.” Would that be better?
I mainly said middle ages since they compared the idea to the catholic church, but I understand the analogy could apply to other religions
Then I guess I just don’t understand your point. Obviously they’d assume a “middle age or prior” society when coming up with solutions to “how can we make sure a middle ages or prior society understands the danger of nuclear material”.
But that’s following the assumption that a society far into the future will be at the level of advancement of a middle-age society or prior. It’s not universal if anyone from a modern or post-modern level of advancement would look at it and think “that’s just primitive superstition.”
A skull and crossbones is a pretty universal symbol of death. As long as a future society is humanoid, or at least familiar with humanoids, they can see that and recognize what it means, regardless of their level of advancement.
Some mythology that speaks of ancient ancestors who created magical rocks that can melt your flesh off at a distance so that they could turn the daylight on inside isn’t likely to deter anyone but the most gullible and least inquisitive.
It also assumes that such a made-up religion would survive longer than any extant languages and scientific knowledge, which is absurd.
You do understand that a modern or post-modern society will have their own tools to detect radiation? We don’t need to optimize for them, we need to optimize for those people who haven’t developed that far.
Oh yeah? Have you seen any research demonstrating that people unfamiliar with that iconography associate it universally with death? Or are you assuming they would, since you’ve seen it associated with death your whole life due to pirate media etc?
Your solution is barely above “why don’t they just write NUCLEAR STUFF, DANGER?”
Yeah, not like millions of people have been following such rules for thousands of years. Much better to use iconography they probably won’t know or understand.
We LITERALLY have religions that survived their languages & scientific knowledge dying off, and most of our modern religious ideas are simply remixes of previous ones. You couldn’t be more wrong if you tried.
Yes, and do you realize that not everyone in a nuclear-capable society wanders around with a geiger counter? If an archaeologist digs up a plate with an atomic diagram of a radioactive isotope, they would at least know “hey, maybe I should get a geiger counter before digging any further.”
Dude, when humans die, they decompose, leaving behind a skull and bones. I’m not making any assumptions based on “pirate media.” Pirates used the symbol because it’s universally recognizably as implying “death” or “danger.” It’s highly arrogant and insulting for you to think any other culture wouldn’t be capable of drawing that connection.
And modern society, particularly in scientifically-minded sectors, already view that as archaic superstition. How are you going to convince enough nuclear engineers to join your cult in order to maintain an unbroken apostolic succession for millennia?
Name one religion that has survived its original language dying off. Reconstructions such as neopaganism don’t count, and neither do languages that can still be translated.
Also, if the nuclear radiation cult’s mythology gets “remixed” by a new religion, then it loses the intent of preserving a warning for future generations. Do you honestly believe modern christianity has maintained the same intent as the original?