Paginated formats still have advantages even if they are never printed. It just makes referencing stuff so much easier, if you can say “page 451, second headline, third paragraph”.
Nahhhh, you gotta think outside the box. You can tell people section 3, subsection 2, etc. even without pages. I’m addition, check this out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML_element#Anchor Click that. See the little but at the end? #Anchor? We can already use URI fragments to link to specific sections.
“But JackbyDev, I’m not linking to a specific section of something in an outline, I need to link to a specific part of long form content, like a novel. I can only do that with pages.”
Edit 2: Apparently Lemmy reformats links in preformat snips. Amazing. Maybe slap this into the URL bar en-US/docs/Web/URI/Reference/Fragment/Text_fragments#:~:text=This%20is%20where%20text%20fragments%20help%3A%20they%20allow%20the%20link%20author%20to%20have%20full%20control%20over%20what%20text%20to%20link%20to%2C%20without%20requiring%20any%20special%20markup%20in%20the%20target%20document. after pasting https://developer.mozilla.org/ Nothing more frustrating that trying to show people a very cool and useful feature of browsers only for a different tool to just ruin it.
No, that’s a Lemmy bug. If it’s screwing up URLs like that it could affect other URLs too. Not a bug of text fragments. Text fragments are still relatively new. Firefox only began supporting them last year. Annoyingly, to create then in Firefox you still need to go into about:config or use an extension. But still, the idea that we should favor paginated format just because you can say “page blah” when we have better ways is foolish. Saying “Search for the phrase ‘blah blah blah’” works equally well without text fragments.
And yes, it’s annoying that anchor links are too difficult to link to. But again, the idea that we should accept all the baggage of paginated formats just because anchors tend to be done incorrectly is foolish as well.
Even easier, for a markdown (text) file, you could just tell someone the line to go to.
If people used markdown instead, then everyone would have nice text editors installed which would make this easy.
Not to mention how much faster searching through a text file is compared to a word doc (eg, you could ctrl+f the headings name and have a result instantly).
If stuff like this was adopted, integrations could be very nice (with easier solutions than saying “go to x page and look for x header”, I could even imagine links being a thing assuming this feature is developed).
Not to mention how much faster searching through a text file is compared to a word doc (eg, you could ctrl+f the headings name and have a result instantly).
Why don’t you just ctrl+f in a word doc/PDF? That’s still possible, but it’s not exactly of much help in many cases. E.g. if the headline you are looking for is the name of a basic concept that appears all over in the document. Page 512 only appears once.
All other forms of indexing are content-dependant. Indexing by page works the same on any page-based document.
You can of course, but I was specifically pointing out how slow word is when doing any search query.
Page 512 or line 10054, more or less the same thing right?
Didn’t think about duplicate header names, in those cases I guess you would need to be given a line number to go to if someone’s sharing a section for you to see.
I don’t use word collaboratively that heavily so maybe people telling you to “see page 512” is common and I can see how saying “go to line 100512” is harder. I’m sure nothing would stop editors from introducing a feature for fake page numbers.
There will always be certain drawbacks though, most may be fixed by editors having nice UX, others maybe not.
A good example for what I mean with the header names is e.g. the datasheet of a microcontroller. For e.g. the Atmega328p, that’s a PDF with a few hundred pages.
If you search for a section explaining a feature, and you CTRL+F for the name of the feature, which is the headline of the corresponding section, you will get matches for the same exact string of characters all over the document: first in the feature list in the beginning of the document, then on the pinout, then in the text of any other feature that references the feature you are looking for, then in the appendices and lastly in the glossary. Somewhere in the middle of these potentially 100s of matches will be the correct one.
After a while of using that document, you will have the most important page numbers memorized.
Paginated formats still have advantages even if they are never printed. It just makes referencing stuff so much easier, if you can say “page 451, second headline, third paragraph”.
Nahhhh, you gotta think outside the box. You can tell people section 3, subsection 2, etc. even without pages. I’m addition, check this out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML_element#Anchor Click that. See the little but at the end?
#Anchor? We can already use URI fragments to link to specific sections.“But JackbyDev, I’m not linking to a specific section of something in an outline, I need to link to a specific part of long form content, like a novel. I can only do that with pages.”
That’s a good point, but modern browsers have a way to deal with that too. This is where text fragments help: they allow the link author to have full control over what text to link to, without requiring any special markup in the target document. You can use
#:~:text=to link to specific blocks of text.Edit: Lemmy is reformatting that for some reason and makes it not work. Try copying and pasting the below for a working example.https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/URI/Reference/Fragment/Text_fragments#%3A%7E%3Atext=This+is+where+text+fragments+help%3A+they+allow+the+link+author+to+have+full+control+over+what+text+to+link+to%2C+without+requiring+any+special+markup+in+the+target+document.Edit 2: Apparently Lemmy reformats links in preformat snips. Amazing. Maybe slap this into the URL bar
en-US/docs/Web/URI/Reference/Fragment/Text_fragments#:~:text=This%20is%20where%20text%20fragments%20help%3A%20they%20allow%20the%20link%20author%20to%20have%20full%20control%20over%20what%20text%20to%20link%20to%2C%20without%20requiring%20any%20special%20markup%20in%20the%20target%20document.after pastinghttps://developer.mozilla.org/Nothing more frustrating that trying to show people a very cool and useful feature of browsers only for a different tool to just ruin it.I think you just proved my point.
None of that is nearly as simple and accessible to non-techy people as page numbers. A page number would also not have been scrabled by Lemmy.
(I of course do know about link anchors and all that, but it’s just a hassle to use.)
No, that’s a Lemmy bug. If it’s screwing up URLs like that it could affect other URLs too. Not a bug of text fragments. Text fragments are still relatively new. Firefox only began supporting them last year. Annoyingly, to create then in Firefox you still need to go into
about:configor use an extension. But still, the idea that we should favor paginated format just because you can say “page blah” when we have better ways is foolish. Saying “Search for the phrase ‘blah blah blah’” works equally well without text fragments.And yes, it’s annoying that anchor links are too difficult to link to. But again, the idea that we should accept all the baggage of paginated formats just because anchors tend to be done incorrectly is foolish as well.
Even easier, for a markdown (text) file, you could just tell someone the line to go to.
If people used markdown instead, then everyone would have nice text editors installed which would make this easy.
Not to mention how much faster searching through a text file is compared to a word doc (eg, you could ctrl+f the headings name and have a result instantly).
If stuff like this was adopted, integrations could be very nice (with easier solutions than saying “go to x page and look for x header”, I could even imagine links being a thing assuming this feature is developed).
Why don’t you just ctrl+f in a word doc/PDF? That’s still possible, but it’s not exactly of much help in many cases. E.g. if the headline you are looking for is the name of a basic concept that appears all over in the document. Page 512 only appears once.
All other forms of indexing are content-dependant. Indexing by page works the same on any page-based document.
You can of course, but I was specifically pointing out how slow word is when doing any search query.
Page 512 or line 10054, more or less the same thing right?
Didn’t think about duplicate header names, in those cases I guess you would need to be given a line number to go to if someone’s sharing a section for you to see.
I don’t use word collaboratively that heavily so maybe people telling you to “see page 512” is common and I can see how saying “go to line 100512” is harder. I’m sure nothing would stop editors from introducing a feature for fake page numbers.
There will always be certain drawbacks though, most may be fixed by editors having nice UX, others maybe not.
A good example for what I mean with the header names is e.g. the datasheet of a microcontroller. For e.g. the Atmega328p, that’s a PDF with a few hundred pages.
If you search for a section explaining a feature, and you CTRL+F for the name of the feature, which is the headline of the corresponding section, you will get matches for the same exact string of characters all over the document: first in the feature list in the beginning of the document, then on the pinout, then in the text of any other feature that references the feature you are looking for, then in the appendices and lastly in the glossary. Somewhere in the middle of these potentially 100s of matches will be the correct one.
After a while of using that document, you will have the most important page numbers memorized.
But how are you going to package it as part of a subscription and make billions off that idea? You need to go back to capitalism school!
Hehe i’ll start a company that charges you 30/month/user for markdown tech tips.
Then i’ll make my own markdown editor that adds proprietary non-standard features to lock you into my ecosystem.