I don’t know, I feel like that’s a bit of a stretch. If god exists, creation is because of them, and early humans and faith are shaped by them, then the concept of a god who purports themselves as objectively good despite subjective proof otherwise doesn’t seem unlikely. The idea that god might not be good in the way we think good should be is relatively modern and prior to the last 100-200 years god was good because everything prior said so. For fucks sake most people couldn’t read and just trusted the guy in robes to tell them what to think.
So yeah, just like me trimming a plant and putting it in rooting hormone 1000 times, I think an all powerful and knowable god could theoretically always inevitably result in Christianity if they wanted, the bar isn’t that high when the majority of the species lifetime is dismally stupid.
Also, your argument is inherently flawed if you think the contrast of a good god must be an evil one. Concepts of good and evil have fluctuated wildly over the centuries, both in location and sentiment. If god made everything and said they are good then at best good to us doesn’t mean the same thing as good means to them and trying to frame the argument in that is meaningless.
At the end of the day you get to decide if you believe in god or not, if you do believe in god you can still decide whether you like “god” and want to follow it; however, making the logical leap that god doesn’t exist because they aren’t good by your definition is fundamentally flawed.
TL;DR
I not so much claim God doesn’t exist as I reject it. If God can only be “proven” by faith, then it equaly can be “disproven” the same way.
That’s why I have a different (although, in a very minor way) position.
From experience I see that God would be at best indifferent to people. Given the choice to believe in such God I see no logical reason to do so.
Either it exists and need to jump through hoops to get into heaven (especially if our concept of good is not the same) or it doesn’t exist I loose nothing by not believing. I don’t even want to go to heaven, I want to just live with my loved ones and then die. I hate the concept of eternal life, there is no part of me that would want it.
Now looking at christian God I not so much as disprove its existence as reject it. If God can only be believed in then it cannot really be disproven, so the next step for me is just to reject the concept the same way I am required to accept it. If God’s and my human moralities do not align, I do not need such God. Morality, by itself, does not require God or punishment to exist.
Moreover, I don’t want a God that requires belief for a reward. In no way I see it as fair and if God is not fair it’s no god of mine.
You’ve still added god to the picture for no particular reason. The universe doesn’t need a sentient cause there is absolutely no reason to believe it needs one.
Yes, a god is unnecessary. However, discussing religion and faith is inseparable from discussing God. Especially when we’re discussing whether it is good, evil or even exist.
My point is more that you cannot argue a god doesn’t exist with logic and Occam’s razor and whatnot when the other side of the discussion doesn’t operate on logic alone. If you’re arguing faith you have to reject it on the same basis, i. e. faith.
My personal belief is that there is no god. Humanity made up religion as tool for control, morality, education, etc. I see no proof that god should exist and on the premise that it could exist (neither claim is provable) I reject it.
I don’t know, I feel like that’s a bit of a stretch. If god exists, creation is because of them, and early humans and faith are shaped by them, then the concept of a god who purports themselves as objectively good despite subjective proof otherwise doesn’t seem unlikely. The idea that god might not be good in the way we think good should be is relatively modern and prior to the last 100-200 years god was good because everything prior said so. For fucks sake most people couldn’t read and just trusted the guy in robes to tell them what to think.
So yeah, just like me trimming a plant and putting it in rooting hormone 1000 times, I think an all powerful and knowable god could theoretically always inevitably result in Christianity if they wanted, the bar isn’t that high when the majority of the species lifetime is dismally stupid.
Also, your argument is inherently flawed if you think the contrast of a good god must be an evil one. Concepts of good and evil have fluctuated wildly over the centuries, both in location and sentiment. If god made everything and said they are good then at best good to us doesn’t mean the same thing as good means to them and trying to frame the argument in that is meaningless.
At the end of the day you get to decide if you believe in god or not, if you do believe in god you can still decide whether you like “god” and want to follow it; however, making the logical leap that god doesn’t exist because they aren’t good by your definition is fundamentally flawed.
TL;DR
I not so much claim God doesn’t exist as I reject it. If God can only be “proven” by faith, then it equaly can be “disproven” the same way.
That’s why I have a different (although, in a very minor way) position.
From experience I see that God would be at best indifferent to people. Given the choice to believe in such God I see no logical reason to do so.
Either it exists and need to jump through hoops to get into heaven (especially if our concept of good is not the same) or it doesn’t exist I loose nothing by not believing. I don’t even want to go to heaven, I want to just live with my loved ones and then die. I hate the concept of eternal life, there is no part of me that would want it.
Now looking at christian God I not so much as disprove its existence as reject it. If God can only be believed in then it cannot really be disproven, so the next step for me is just to reject the concept the same way I am required to accept it. If God’s and my human moralities do not align, I do not need such God. Morality, by itself, does not require God or punishment to exist.
Moreover, I don’t want a God that requires belief for a reward. In no way I see it as fair and if God is not fair it’s no god of mine.
You’ve still added god to the picture for no particular reason. The universe doesn’t need a sentient cause there is absolutely no reason to believe it needs one.
Yes, a god is unnecessary. However, discussing religion and faith is inseparable from discussing God. Especially when we’re discussing whether it is good, evil or even exist.
My point is more that you cannot argue a god doesn’t exist with logic and Occam’s razor and whatnot when the other side of the discussion doesn’t operate on logic alone. If you’re arguing faith you have to reject it on the same basis, i. e. faith.
My personal belief is that there is no god. Humanity made up religion as tool for control, morality, education, etc. I see no proof that god should exist and on the premise that it could exist (neither claim is provable) I reject it.