A fascist to me is someone, like the literal Nazis (and not just the hyperbolic use of the word today), who (by force [very important context]) wanted to enact their beliefs and doctrine. I didn’t see Charlie going around to campuses and forcibly ending people who disagree with him or trying to put people into camps for thinking differently than him.
But a fascist by definition (not our own personal meaning, but the actual meaning) is:
‘a far-right, authoritarian, and ultranationalist political ideology and movement’
and that’s how I was using it. By that definition, which is the standard definition, Charlie Kirk was a fascist. He would have agreed with all of those things: he was far-right, authoritarian, and ultra-nationalist. (e: and I can give you examples in his own words where he proudly agreed with those things)
So, I am using the actual definition, where you are using your own personal definition.
That is one part of the definition and isn’t including the important part that the reason it’s authoritarian is by its use of force to enact its beliefs.
My comment about those throwing around the term fascist being the fascist wasn’t directed at you and was broadly applicable to the people who are (by force) trying to silence anyone who disagrees with them.
A fascist to me is someone, like the literal Nazis (and not just the hyperbolic use of the word today), who (by force [very important context]) wanted to enact their beliefs and doctrine. I didn’t see Charlie going around to campuses and forcibly ending people who disagree with him or trying to put people into camps for thinking differently than him.
No, he didn’t go to campuses to forcibly end people who disagreed with him, instead he loaded buses full of armed and violent extremists and set them loose on the capital building in Washington D.C.
getdafugouttahere with this man of peace bullshit.
So you agree that fascism is far-right, authoritarian, and ultra-nationalist, you’re only haggling that it’s ‘by force’.
Can you give me any citations that say fascism is only fascism once it uses force?
I am not throwing around that term, I assure you, and it seems so far that you don’t actually understand what that word means.
It’s a political ideology, nearly the opposite of socialism.
So, again, can you explain why you said my comment was fascist? By your definition, I did not use force. What about my comment, or my ideology that you seemed to get from it, was fascist?
You missed the part where I said my reply wasn’t entirely directed at yours and was speaking more broadly?
Can you name large groups of fascists that didn’t use force to further along fascism? Nazis, Mussolini, Vargas, etc are the largest groups in history to be fascist and they all achieved their goals by force.
I’ll remind you of your comment that sparked this subthread.
I said Kirk was a fascist, and you said: ‘Hilarious how the people saying he was a fascist are themselves the fascists’.
Anyone with a brain would easily see you’re saying I am actually the fascist. Would you like to try again?
I’d love to have a conversation with you about this, but we both need to be honest.
No, I can’t name any fascist movements that didn’t end in violence. That’s why it’s so terribly deadly, and why we can’t allow it to fester. They don’t start with violence, though. They start with populism.
Can you please explain what about my comment made you say it was fascist? Are you still confident you know what that word means?
e: now you’ve run away, and are trolling others in this thread instead. I hope someday soon you’ll try to learn something rather than insisting on your own ignorance. We’ve all been wrong. It’s okay.
He was literally the leader of the new Hitler Juggen. Not every Nazi killed people. They just accepted it and cheered it on. The Nazis didn’t start out slaughtering everyone they put into camps. It was their final solution. and only after massive incompetence on every other front.
If you are Jewish and you do not understand modern Republicans and the Trump administration in particular for what they are. You must be quite the cultural disappointment. That you have no problem defending Trump or his enablers. But don’t agree with Bibi Netanyahu. Is some really fucked up cognitive dissonance that you need to address in yourself.
Please show where I supported Trump or even Charlie for that matter? You people are just making up assumptions left and right. This is hilarious. I merely said someone with different opinions shouldn’t be killed for them. But apparently most everyone here is in a death cult who want anyone who disagrees with them to be silenced. I’m a LibSoc, anarchist btw.
You’re here admonishing people for being glad he’s gone.
Let’s be clear. In a just society people shouldn’t suffer genocide or slaughter for who they are. In a just society people shouldn’t be slaughtered for their speech. We don’t live in a just society. In case you weren’t aware.
Charlie celebrated all of this. And all your screeching of death cult to anyone expressing their happiness at the passing of such a disease on society. Is uncalled for and hypocritical, seeing as Charlie Kirk himself was a spokesman for a death cult.
Don’t get me wrong. I don’t think his murder has made anything better. But until such time as society as a whole stops and refuses to elevate people like him. To give people like him a platform. I’m not going to admonish those who took the only action left to them in the face of an intolerant society. Or those that celebrate it.
Charlie Kirk stands to do more good in death than he would have ever been capable of in life. But only if we don’t play their games. Calling out the people who rightfully celebrate the fact that Kirk suffered the fate he advocated for others to experience. any good person should celebrate that Kirk fell on his own sword.The question is why aren’t you?
If you’re actually Jewish, you should be far more careful with the word ‘fascist’, and you should learn about history before throwing that word around. Fascism is happening now, so being judicial with that word is more important than ever.
The cult of tradition. “One has only to look at the syllabus of every fascist movement to find the major traditionalist thinkers. The Nazi gnosis was nourished by traditionalist, syncretistic, occult elements.”
The rejection of modernism. “The Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, is seen as the beginning of modern depravity. In this sense Ur-Fascism can be defined as irrationalism.”
3.The cult of action for action’s sake. “Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, any previous reflection. Thinking is a form of emasculation.”
Disagreement is treason. “The critical spirit makes distinctions, and to distinguish is a sign of modernism. In modern culture the scientific community praises disagreement as a way to improve knowledge.”
Fear of difference. “The first appeal of a fascist or prematurely fascist movement is an appeal against the intruders. Thus Ur-Fascism is racist by definition.”
Appeal to social frustration. “One of the most typical features of the historical fascism was the appeal to a frustrated middle class, a class suffering from an economic crisis or feelings of political humiliation, and frightened by the pressure of lower social groups.”
The obsession with a plot. “Thus at the root of the Ur-Fascist psychology there is the obsession with a plot, possibly an international one. The followers must feel besieged.”
The enemy is both strong and weak. “By a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.”
Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. “For Ur-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle.”
Contempt for the weak. “Elitism is a typical aspect of any reactionary ideology.”
Everybody is educated to become a hero. “In Ur-Fascist ideology, heroism is the norm. This cult of heroism is strictly linked with the cult of death.”
Machismo and weaponry. “Machismo implies both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality.”
Selective populism. “There is in our future a TV or Internet populism, in which the emotional response of a selected group of citizens can be presented and accepted as the Voice of the People.”
Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak. “All the Nazi or Fascist schoolbooks made use of an impoverished vocabulary, and an elementary syntax, in order to limit the instruments for complex and critical reasoning.”
Okay, let’s talk. Can you define ‘fascist’ for me?
What is fascism?
e: I had asked people not to downvote my interlocutor in order to foster conversation, but nevermind; this isn’t going anywhere.
A fascist to me is someone, like the literal Nazis (and not just the hyperbolic use of the word today), who (by force [very important context]) wanted to enact their beliefs and doctrine. I didn’t see Charlie going around to campuses and forcibly ending people who disagree with him or trying to put people into camps for thinking differently than him.
Okay, thanks.
But a fascist by definition (not our own personal meaning, but the actual meaning) is:
‘a far-right, authoritarian, and ultranationalist political ideology and movement’
and that’s how I was using it. By that definition, which is the standard definition, Charlie Kirk was a fascist. He would have agreed with all of those things: he was far-right, authoritarian, and ultra-nationalist. (e: and I can give you examples in his own words where he proudly agreed with those things)
So, I am using the actual definition, where you are using your own personal definition.
Now, can you explain how I am a fascist?
That is one part of the definition and isn’t including the important part that the reason it’s authoritarian is by its use of force to enact its beliefs.
My comment about those throwing around the term fascist being the fascist wasn’t directed at you and was broadly applicable to the people who are (by force) trying to silence anyone who disagrees with them.
No, he didn’t go to campuses to forcibly end people who disagreed with him, instead he loaded buses full of armed and violent extremists and set them loose on the capital building in Washington D.C.
getdafugouttahere with this man of peace bullshit.
So you agree that fascism is far-right, authoritarian, and ultra-nationalist, you’re only haggling that it’s ‘by force’.
Can you give me any citations that say fascism is only fascism once it uses force?
I am not throwing around that term, I assure you, and it seems so far that you don’t actually understand what that word means.
It’s a political ideology, nearly the opposite of socialism.
So, again, can you explain why you said my comment was fascist? By your definition, I did not use force. What about my comment, or my ideology that you seemed to get from it, was fascist?
You missed the part where I said my reply wasn’t entirely directed at yours and was speaking more broadly?
Can you name large groups of fascists that didn’t use force to further along fascism? Nazis, Mussolini, Vargas, etc are the largest groups in history to be fascist and they all achieved their goals by force.
I’ll remind you of your comment that sparked this subthread.
I said Kirk was a fascist, and you said: ‘Hilarious how the people saying he was a fascist are themselves the fascists’.
Anyone with a brain would easily see you’re saying I am actually the fascist. Would you like to try again?
I’d love to have a conversation with you about this, but we both need to be honest.
No, I can’t name any fascist movements that didn’t end in violence. That’s why it’s so terribly deadly, and why we can’t allow it to fester. They don’t start with violence, though. They start with populism.
Can you please explain what about my comment made you say it was fascist? Are you still confident you know what that word means?
e: now you’ve run away, and are trolling others in this thread instead. I hope someday soon you’ll try to learn something rather than insisting on your own ignorance. We’ve all been wrong. It’s okay.
Lol this guy doesn’t know what fascism is
He was literally the leader of the new Hitler Juggen. Not every Nazi killed people. They just accepted it and cheered it on. The Nazis didn’t start out slaughtering everyone they put into camps. It was their final solution. and only after massive incompetence on every other front.
If you are Jewish and you do not understand modern Republicans and the Trump administration in particular for what they are. You must be quite the cultural disappointment. That you have no problem defending Trump or his enablers. But don’t agree with Bibi Netanyahu. Is some really fucked up cognitive dissonance that you need to address in yourself.
Please show where I supported Trump or even Charlie for that matter? You people are just making up assumptions left and right. This is hilarious. I merely said someone with different opinions shouldn’t be killed for them. But apparently most everyone here is in a death cult who want anyone who disagrees with them to be silenced. I’m a LibSoc, anarchist btw.
You’re here admonishing people for being glad he’s gone.
Let’s be clear. In a just society people shouldn’t suffer genocide or slaughter for who they are. In a just society people shouldn’t be slaughtered for their speech. We don’t live in a just society. In case you weren’t aware.
Charlie celebrated all of this. And all your screeching of death cult to anyone expressing their happiness at the passing of such a disease on society. Is uncalled for and hypocritical, seeing as Charlie Kirk himself was a spokesman for a death cult.
Don’t get me wrong. I don’t think his murder has made anything better. But until such time as society as a whole stops and refuses to elevate people like him. To give people like him a platform. I’m not going to admonish those who took the only action left to them in the face of an intolerant society. Or those that celebrate it.
Charlie Kirk stands to do more good in death than he would have ever been capable of in life. But only if we don’t play their games. Calling out the people who rightfully celebrate the fact that Kirk suffered the fate he advocated for others to experience. any good person should celebrate that Kirk fell on his own sword.The question is why aren’t you?
Nobody is making assumptions here but you.
Your comments have been very clear.
If you’re actually Jewish, you should be far more careful with the word ‘fascist’, and you should learn about history before throwing that word around. Fascism is happening now, so being judicial with that word is more important than ever.
14 Signs of Fascism: