That I am saying we can accomplish better, more equitable housing within capitalism. I’m a communist, I want socialism, and that’s the first step towards communism. I am not pointing out exploitation and a solution to it as some actionable goal within capitalism, but to point to the fact that a better world is possible, and we get there through revolution.
There has never been a society where people could not work to get better housing. Not in the USSR, with the famous soviet housing, not anywhere. Public housing does not mean all housing is the same, just that fewer people go without. Further, your wages are being taken from you, in socialism that isn’t a problem, so you won’t have to put in a decade of renting to get something nicer.
Guess it’s more a matter of ignorance on my part (also seems I’m out of my element here), I don’t know much about how current communist societies are living - do you have examples of what you’re talking about? You’ve piqued my interest, I’d like to see an example of housing in one of these situations and how they vary, what kind of amenities people are living with there, what it takes to achieve something similar to what I have here (3 bed 1ba SFH on a 5th acre)? Etc…
Different socialist systems have had different levels of development, policies, and social wealth, so there’s no one comparison to a presumably western country. For starters, western countries have inflated social wealthy due to imperialism, which is not a benefit for socialist countries. Countries like the USSR had different systems from modern Cuba, the PRC, etc, but all have different houses, and different wages depending on jobs worked.
I don’t have anything in-depth on hand, but surely you can see that eliminating usury from housing makes housing more affordable without needing to compromise on quality.
This kind of touches on a different aspect of it all, but would you not be concerned with any level of government overreach in any of these places? I’m sure to some degree it’s propaganda/media biases we experience in the states, but the level of freedom your average citizen has certainly varies from one place to the next, North Korea obviously being one of the most extreme, while places like China seem to have some aspects that reflect a little more closely to what we know in the US… Where’s the happy medium?
Not sure if that’s clear, I guess what I might be getting at is, for example, the bill of rights in the US… We have some rights that most of these communist societies lack, no? Is it just a matter of being a bit of a trade-off? Is the grass really greener in China?
All that said, it’s not too far beyond my understanding that US citizens don’t truly have the level of freedom we’re told/sold, but still, there are some things that do make this country nice to live in.
(I don’t mean to come off as difficult here, I’m actually enjoying the discussion)
You’re confused on 2 primary accounts:
That I am saying we can accomplish better, more equitable housing within capitalism. I’m a communist, I want socialism, and that’s the first step towards communism. I am not pointing out exploitation and a solution to it as some actionable goal within capitalism, but to point to the fact that a better world is possible, and we get there through revolution.
There has never been a society where people could not work to get better housing. Not in the USSR, with the famous soviet housing, not anywhere. Public housing does not mean all housing is the same, just that fewer people go without. Further, your wages are being taken from you, in socialism that isn’t a problem, so you won’t have to put in a decade of renting to get something nicer.
Guess it’s more a matter of ignorance on my part (also seems I’m out of my element here), I don’t know much about how current communist societies are living - do you have examples of what you’re talking about? You’ve piqued my interest, I’d like to see an example of housing in one of these situations and how they vary, what kind of amenities people are living with there, what it takes to achieve something similar to what I have here (3 bed 1ba SFH on a 5th acre)? Etc…
Different socialist systems have had different levels of development, policies, and social wealth, so there’s no one comparison to a presumably western country. For starters, western countries have inflated social wealthy due to imperialism, which is not a benefit for socialist countries. Countries like the USSR had different systems from modern Cuba, the PRC, etc, but all have different houses, and different wages depending on jobs worked.
I don’t have anything in-depth on hand, but surely you can see that eliminating usury from housing makes housing more affordable without needing to compromise on quality.
This kind of touches on a different aspect of it all, but would you not be concerned with any level of government overreach in any of these places? I’m sure to some degree it’s propaganda/media biases we experience in the states, but the level of freedom your average citizen has certainly varies from one place to the next, North Korea obviously being one of the most extreme, while places like China seem to have some aspects that reflect a little more closely to what we know in the US… Where’s the happy medium?
Not sure if that’s clear, I guess what I might be getting at is, for example, the bill of rights in the US… We have some rights that most of these communist societies lack, no? Is it just a matter of being a bit of a trade-off? Is the grass really greener in China?
All that said, it’s not too far beyond my understanding that US citizens don’t truly have the level of freedom we’re told/sold, but still, there are some things that do make this country nice to live in.
(I don’t mean to come off as difficult here, I’m actually enjoying the discussion)