About a decade ago, Tesla rigged the dashboard readouts in its electric cars to provide “rosy” projections of how far owners can drive before needing to recharge, a source told Reuters.

From the article: “About a decade ago, Tesla rigged the dashboard readouts in its electric cars to provide “rosy” projections of how far owners can drive before needing to recharge, a source told Reuters. The automaker last year became so inundated with driving-range complaints that it created a special team to cancel owners’ service appointments.”

  • HollandJim@lemmy.world
    0·
    1 year ago

    In the US, people tend to drive a lot further than in Europe.

    As an American, I understand and appreciate this - which is why I pointed out the difference between the previous comment’s generalisation of EV inefficiencies and made the point about infrastructure being the key issue.

    What holds for the US is not universally applicable. This is the world wide web, after all. ;)

    Back 5-7 years ago, the company FastNed got the Dutch government to allow for charging stations every 50km along our highways (no tolls, btw - we pay enough in taxes). They had to go to court and break the stranglehold of oil companies to allow for FastNet charging at the same rest stop…and it worked. FastNed is everywhere, making EV ownership easier, and expanding into in Belgium, France, Germany and the UK. They also work with the Elli charging service as a partner, and that lets you charge nearly everywhere in the Continent. Equal access is the name of the game - share the wealth. Even Tesla had to make sure all connectors in Europe had the same plug and that (along with access to government subsidies) helped open up their networks here.

    Smaller networks that corral charging points for themselves don’t survive as well. It’s possible that in Europe the networks are naturally smaller and so becoming something of a co-operative in a larger network makes sense. Networking together in the US could help resolve that, but now with NACS the equation has been reset again.

    Your argument on range only shows further that infrastructure is the key. You need electricity run pump gas; there should be fast chargers everywhere there are gas stations. Then you wouldn’t need to go 600km (I know I can’t go farther than 2-3 hours without needing a break, and that’s about the range (~400km) of my 58kWh ID.3).

    • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
      0·
      1 year ago

      Filling up gas takes ~5 min, recharging an EV takes 20-30, if you have a proper fast charger. So even if every gas station had a fast charger, it would still be inconvenient.

      When I drive long distances, I usually only stop for gas. So if an EV required more frequent stops, it’s going to add a lot of time to the trip. My gas cars get about 400 miles per tank, so that’s what I expect from an EV for highway range.

      Current EVs have too much range for a commuter (i.e. cost too much), and not enough range for road trips, so they’re not there yet for me. Give me something like a Bolt for <$20k with ~150 miles of range and I’ll probably buy it. I don’t need self-driving features, fast acceleration, or a fancy infotainment system, as long as it has a heater (not heated seats), A/C, and a way to play my audiobooks (headphone jack works), it’ll meet my needs. I got my current commuter (used Prius) for ~$10k w/ <60k miles, so that’s what it’s competing with.

      We’ll get there eventually, and until then, I’ll be driving my hybrid.

      • HollandJim@lemmy.worldEnglish
        1·
        1 year ago

        Filling up gas takes ~5 min, recharging an EV takes 20-30…

        Unless you have it plugged in at home or work, then every time you get into the car it’s got full range. If you’re saying you want to drive 400+ miles without a break, then I wonder about how safely you drive. Certainly you’re not suggesting driving MORE than 400 miles, tank after tank, without a break…that’s just silly and dangerous. My range estimates of 2.5-3 hours is about how long I can drive safely without needing a break, not the machine. Otherwise it’s just comparing useless numbers (but that’s how we were programmed for decades to buy cars anyway, right?) But also you’re ignoring any environmental impact of driving on gas and comparing new EVs with a $10k used Prius. So what are we even talking about?

        • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          1·
          1 year ago

          Yes, about 1-2x/year, I’ll drive 600-900 miles in a day. Usually I’ll stop only for gas and to pick up some fast food, and keep going and do it all in one day.

          I’ve done this almost every year for almost 20 years now and have never had an issue. I’ve never had an accident, and I was only pulled over once for expired tags (got a warning). Sometimes we’ll switch off driving (usually I’ll just drive the whole way though), but we don’t stop for more than 10-15 min at a time.

          Here’s a trip I did last year:

          1. Drive to parents house - 800-900 miles, did it in 13-ish hours
          2. Drive from parent’s house to brother’s house - 500-600 miles
          3. Drive from brother’s house to national park - ~600 miles
          4. Drive from national park to home - ~400 miles

          As a kid, we used to drive between my parents’ current house and where I now live (to grandparents house), and I drove most of the way as soon as I could drive because I got car sick otherwise.

          We also occasionally drive to visit in-laws, which is about 600-700 miles, and again, we do that with only stopping for gas (we usually bring lunch).

          Usually I’ll drive about 3-4 hours at a time, sometimes a little longer. I just throw on an audiobook and go for it, or sometimes my spouse and I just talk.

          ignoring any environmental impact

          It’s more complicated than just my own emissions. Here are some of the variables at play:

          • new vehicle production
          • mining for materials (especially impactful for batteries)
          • electricity generation - my area uses ~50% coal (75% back when I bought my Prius), so the eco benefits are less than an area using hydro or nuclear power

          According to this article the breakeven point where an EV would start being more eco-friendly than an ICE car is 13.5-78.5k miles, so for my area it’s probably ~50k miles. My Prius gets 45-50mpg, so I guess that number would be a bit higher (maybe 75k miles?).

          And then beyond just emissions, there’s also the issue that EVs use a lot of conflict materials. My Prius also has a battery, so it’s a little more complex, but it’s a much smaller battery than in an EV.

          So it’s a complex set of issues that it’s hard for me to say definitively that upgrading my older cars (each with well over 100k miles) is the better option. What I can say is that upgrading our family car (minivan that gets crappy mpg) to an EV would require a significant change in lifestyle. We like to go on road trips to areas with poor EV charging, so we’d have to compromise on that or rent when we go. I could upgrade my commuter, but that would be quite costly and it’s probably not that much better than my current car since I already get great fuel economy, so I’d rather wait and see.

          So my plan is:

          • upgrade my minivan (20-22 mpg) to a hybrid (~35mpg) - we only drive 5k or so miles with this car each year
          • wait until I either have a mechanical issue or EV prices for cars with 100-150 miles range become more affordable (I have a 25 mile each way commute 2-3x/week) - so I drive <10k miles with it as is, probably around 7,500 miles

          If I bought two EVs (and yes, we need two cars), we’d need to rent an ICE for those road trips, and that sucks. If there was a decent selection of high range EVs, or the charging network were significantly better, maybe an EV would make sense. But it currently doesn’t.