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Cake day: November 14th, 2023

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  • Blue_Morpho@lemmy.worldtoLemmy Shitpost@lemmy.worldShe strongly disagrees
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    7 hours ago

    Ephesus is not a patriarchal society

    Outside of priestesses, it was a patriarchal society. Greece had priestesses too. The existence of a priestess doesn’t make a patriarchal society.

    Prohibitions against dressing fancy for women and only women has nothing to do with combatting paganism. Men participated in the cult of Artemis yet Paul said nothing about restricting men. Paul does not mention paganism nor heresy.

    Paul did not make those proscription just for Timothy. He said “I”. Your version did not show any mistranslation.

    Corinthians also says woman should not speak in church in so it cannot be a special case only for Timothy.

    Where is the admonishment that men should do the same?

    What Paul is saying is “If women want to teach, they first need to learn. If they want to learn, they need to stop flaunting their wealth, stop behaving like entitled jerks, and start treating our teachers — who are men — with respect, instead of trying to usurp their positions. We aren’t doing this for clout, but to improve everyone’s lives. Those who haven’t learned the rules are going to make terrible mistakes.”

    You just restarted the blatant sexism that everyone complains about.

    Maybe changing the context will help you see the problem:

    What Paul is saying is "If Blacks want to teach, they first need to learn. If they want to learn, they need to stop flaunting their wealth, stop behaving like entitled jerks, and start treating our teachers — who are White — with respect, instead of trying to usurp their positions.

    Is that racist? If you can see the racism, then read your statement again and see the sexism that you defend.


  • Whenever the men lift up their hands to address God, I want their hands to be clean, not soiled with resentment or quarrel. In the same way, women need to present themselves reasonably - with dignity and self-discipline. Not with extravagant hairstyles, golden jewelry, expensive pearls, or decadent clothes, but in alignment with the values of a woman who claims to serve God: by setting a good example in how they live and behave. Let them learn, but they must be calm and composed students. I will not give my permission for a woman to seize control of teaching from a man. They must conduct themselves peacefully. Remember the story of Adam and Eve. Adam, who came first, was not deceived, but Eve, who came later, was tricked into doing wrong.

    You believe this is the correct translation yet it doesn’t change the problem at all.

    “women need to present themselves reasonably - with dignity and self-discipline. Not with extravagant hairstyles, golden jewelry, expensive pearls, or decadent clothes, but in alignment with the values of a woman who claims to serve God:”

    Where is the admonishment that men should do the same?

    remember what I said about Ephesus being the seat of the matriarchal Artemis cult.

    " I will not give my permission for a woman to seize control of teaching from a man.

    Even if the problem is that he is talking about the Cult of Artemis, it cannot be an admonishment that ONLY WOMEN do not have permission. There is no mention that men or women shouldn’t follow pagan religions. It is only an admonishment against women. As such there is no textual support that this was anti pagan rhetoric.

    Again Paul says that he doesn’t support women to seize control of teaching. It therefore cannot be about the cult of Artemis.


  • you have the choice of either believing and following (assuming the Christian god) to go to heaven or not believing and following and burning in eternal torment.

    That’s known as Pascal’s wager. There were many criticisms by Laplace, Voltaire, and many other philosophers. The problem is it presupposes that the only God is the Christian God defined in the Bible. Whereas other Gods (and there are an infinite possible God’s) such as Zeus wouldn’t condemn you to torment for non belief. Plus the infinite Gods that would torment you for praying to the wrong God.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_wager



  • The paragraph before it says this: “Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing.”

    So that too must be just a letter and not a doctrinal command from god.

    And Paul says “I don’t permit.” Not “You shouldn’t permit.” So it’s also how the rest of the Christian church was run. It wasn’t a special instruction for Timothy because of special circumstances. Not that ANY circumstances justify such a prohibition.

    “Don’t allow heresy.” is fine. Paul doesn’t doesn’t prohibit Men from teaching heresy or dressing immodestly. (The excuse some give is this was a letter because of the Cult of Artemis.)



  • this has been terribly mistranslated

    Ther original is in Greek. There is no mistranslation.

    Paul says, “I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet.” If it was about heretics, it would have said so. If it was about Timothy’s church only, he would have said so.

    Paul said “I” don’t permit it. He didn’t say “You” shouldn’t permit it. That means the Christian church, even without the cult of Artemis, should not permit women to teach or have authority over men.




  • Isn’t that cherrypicking? If you discount what Paul says to Timothy as being applicable only to his church then you have to discount the rest:

    " For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, "

    “Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing.”

    There is nothing in the text to suggest that Paul was instructing only Timothy about a special case for his church. Paul said " I do not permit." He didn’t say, “You shouldn’t permit.”