Therapist: Hatless Toad doesn’t exist, Hatless Toad can’t hurt you

Hatless Toad:

That’s funny but I’m not sure that’s fair to some neurodivergent people 😅

This is a good post (sincere)

Sure, I’ll cop to that level of idealism. I think the “human condition” is a real thing we’ve inherited from our evolutionary forebears, and we’re constantly fighting against it. Heck, my main complaint started out as seeing Lemmy MLs as tribalistic to their own detriment. Even if it isn’t truly universal, I don’t think any form of political organization can permanently overcome that.

Also, yeah, I know that fiction doesn’t describe reality, just the author’s perspective of reality (learned that from Ayn Rand, 🤣 ). Didn’t know that Orwell was anti-semitic (nightmare ick), but the message I took from 1984 was anti-establishment and anti-authoritarian, not necessarily anti-communist. I was taught that the “soc” in Ingsoc was a lie, just as in the Ministry of Truth produced lies and the Ministry of Love produced cruelty. Anyway.

I also want to reference some things I’ve heard about the USSR and the PRC, but I feel the canned response is that it’s all Western propaganda, and I don’t see a productive outcome of that line of conversation. I have some observations after reading Three Body Problem and my partner’s fandom for MXTX’s light novels, but that’s very anecdotal.

At any rate, I got more of the insight I wanted about Lemmy MLs, and you as always give me a lot to think about, Cowbee <3 I always appreciate your time and patience.

My observations and intuition so far is that, the larger the organization, the more that its injustices outweigh its benefits. Power corrupts, and people always have a way of justifying their own actions to themselves, no matter how unjust or “evil” they may be. As a population, I’m not confident in any one person, or any one small party, to wield the broad authority that a large government has.

I dunno. The more introspective I get the more I think of Oceania in 1984. Ingsoc is purported to be socialist but it’s still highly stratified, and the higher classes wield their power in the most violent and dehumanizing way possible. I fear that that’s the result of not just socialist organizations, but any organization that becomes large enough.

This is extremely convincing. I need to think more about my pre-conceived notions. I want to review what I know little I know about Hobbes and Rousseau; but I know I promised you I would read Marx and Engels and I haven’t been able to make good on it yet :(

Republican strategists focused on “nice” and “friendly” aesthetics to make Trump win

I don’t… this is so far removed from my experiences that I’m confused. I see that Trump supporters like that Trump is an aggressive, foul-mouthed bully. His supporters found it appealing that he isn’t a run-of-the-mill placating, conciliatory politician that Washington tends to produce; he wields whatever leverage he has like a barbed-wire baseball bat and calls it negotiating. Anyway.

The rest of your post I think I agree with.

Not, people being antagonistic. But I see why you see hypocrisy.

I don’t agree but I understand. I find it extremely frustrating that it’s so difficult to organize my fellow Americans to respond to the injustices we all see and agree on. That said I’m not at all convinced to give up whatever individualism I have. I don’t see individualism/collectivism as so black-and-white, or even one-dimensional.

This makes a lot of sense to me.

See? This is precisely what I’m talking about

I 99.5% agree and sympathize. I know how lucky I am that the biggest existential threats I’ve faced are depression and joblessness, and a lot of my friends are much less lucky. I don’t know how to fight for them while also making sure they’re safe.

The remaining half a percent is when you say it’s not personal. A lot of these memes and a lot of comments I get from MLs seem quite personal, treating “liberals” as a monolith.

My curiosity is genuine piqued. Any recommendations to read about this in particular?

I’ve been thinking for a long time that any large-scale organization will lead to greed, corruption, injustice, et al. It’s only since I’ve been reading about ML that I learned I lean anarchist. Vanguard parties sound like a bad idea to me.

I can’t assess if I think this way because of American indoctrination right now, but y’all just seem so mean and angry.

Everything I see come out of ML instances here has the same sneering, tribal in-group-good-out-group-bad attitude that I see not only MAGA people post, but also what I’ve seen queer people post that drive “normies” away and push them into conservative rabbit holes.

I understand y’all are frustrated with liberals and liberalism and the capital-W West. I agree that the injustices of these systems is sickening. But these memes are being broadcast outside any echo chamber, and they attack individuals personally, who also use very different terminology.

Lemmy’s MLs have terrible optics and, frankly, I think that’s hurting your cause a lot more than MLs seem to care. You’ll never get their support and they’ll resist you and your cause.

I’m also looking for a reason to believe that the MLs here aren’t a bunch of angsty edgelords who just use ML as an excuse for lashing out. You definitely seem like the rare exception, Cowbee, and I appreciate you for it.

So Marxist socialism and classical liberalism are mutually exclusive?

With all due respect, that’s sounds like leaps of logic, like saying he scientific theory leads directly to and only to nuclear warfare.

Does classical liberalism only lead to slave trade/colonialism?

I’m guessing I got downvoted because I said I’m fine with classical liberalism?

Ok, cool. I’m asking out of genuine curiosity. How does this post make you feel? You’re in the overlap of the targeter and the targeted.

As a show of good faith, let’s commiserate. I agree that our “founding fathers” weren’t good people by today’s standards, but I’m in the camp that their ideas of classical liberalism were fine. I feel shame that our country is built on genocide, slavery and exploitation, but at the same time, I want to hold our current leadership to a higher standard and ahem prosecute them. I understand that you don’t agree with classical liberalism, and that’s fine, I’m not looking to pick a fight. But I imagine you feel some confusion and conflict as I do?