I don’t see any avenue where he is found not guilty to be honest, but in that theoretical case, I think that there’s going to be a lot of older folk that absolutely lose their mind about the principle of the matter.
It’s straight Jury Nullification within an hour of deliberation unless there are people on the jury who have been bought, by monetary means or otherwise.
Not guilty seems very unlikely based on the publicly available evidence. I could see a hung jury happening though, as there are a minority of people who strongly want him to go free.
The most loud evidence since the arrest was the backpack with the gun and the manifesto. Except it was known pretty soon that the cops botched the ‘chain of custody’ for the backpack, as some officer had the backpack in her sole possession for an hour before delivering it to the station.
I keep being baffled as to why I don’t see any news about this evidence being thrown away. Maybe it was dismissed from the trial right away, idk.
Right, and I think we are seeing increasing cases of jury nullification, especially for civil disobedience against ICE. However, the reality is that Lemmy is a bubble. Luigi and his alleged murder are nowhere near as popular among the greater population as he is here. So that’s why I think the chance of a hung jury is higher than nullification. Hung jury can happen if there is just one or a few people who refuse to convict. But jury nullification requires unanimity. There’s bound to be at least a few law & order boomer types on the jury. But only time will tell.
All I have is the publicly available evidence, but that pretty strongly indicates guilt.
he was found a state over, at a mcdonalds. With a fake ID that was the same name that was used to check into manhatten, and for transport. with a bag containing a loaded unmarked 3d printed handgun that matched the footage.
He also had writings which are not public but have been stated to indicate his mindset prior to the murder, and a notebook that contained detailed travel plans and how to avoid capture.
Like pacifist said though, the police are tripping this case up, the biggest defense for Luigi at the moment is the ineptitude of the police during the arrest sequence and investigation. They have already succeeded in throwing out medical records due to improper acquisition, have been found wiretapping attorney lines (which IMO should be an immediate opposing party wins regardless), and are in the process of trying to throw the bag out that was found at mcdonalds due to improper search and seizure claims (although I don’t personally think this will happen, it’s pretty clear the search and seizure laws in that state clarify that a search will happen on any arrest regardless of case)
the only way I can see him getting a “innocent” verdict is Jury nullification, so I am not leaning on that, because even if found innocent on the second degree murder charges, based off publicly available evidence the prosecution still has a fairly strong case of stalking charges. Plus he still is facing the same charges at the state level as well, as the judges ruled it isn’t considered double jeopardy for someone to be trialed both federally and state side (which IMO is wrong but I digress)
I wont break down all the evidence since I dont want to get in an extended argument but looking at what you posted, given what we know publicly there is room for reasonable doubt.
Here would be my counter arguments without going into detail.
The descripencies in photos released by police during the manhunt.
The bag that was ditch with suspicious reports of its contents.
The improper handling of the weapon.
Not saying these for sure indicate innocence just there is still room for reasonable doubt in the court of public opinion.
I agree, there is room for reasonable doubt, I do believe if they manage to throw the bag out of the evidence he will get his doubt. I just don’t see them throwing the bag out.
I don’t think there is room for a non-guilty verdict though. At minimum he will have stalking conviction, at maximum he will get murder conviction. Outside of the jury nullification I don’t see a full innocent being done, but that will have to be done on both the state and federal cases.
To go back to your actual question though: Due to the publicly available evidence, I believe the older folk will have issue with if he goes free. I don’t believe any fights will happen in regards to it, but it would be a clear abuse of process (in the eyes of the public). It would be like OJ Simpsons “If I did it” all over again.
It’s a big reason why im firmly against the public getting involved with cases like this. It doesn’t matter what the jury says, the general public thinks he did it, due to the amount of news given on the case. His battle won’t end at the courts, he will have to fight that claim for the rest of his life and thats not fair to him if he is actually innocent.
The only way I can see the general public being ok with an innocent verdict, is if they make it absolutely clear that the evidence given to the public was embellished and not actually correct. That would be an insane turn of events though. If it ends up being a case of the evidence was thrown out/not being able to be used, or a jury nullification did somehow happen, people are going to complain and call it a systematic failure, regardless of cause or reasoning. Innocent until proven guilty is only correct in the court process. With current day media coverage you are guilty until proven innocent.
I don’t see any avenue where he is found not guilty to be honest, but in that theoretical case, I think that there’s going to be a lot of older folk that absolutely lose their mind about the principle of the matter.
It’s straight Jury Nullification within an hour of deliberation unless there are people on the jury who have been bought, by monetary means or otherwise.
Not guilty seems very unlikely based on the publicly available evidence. I could see a hung jury happening though, as there are a minority of people who strongly want him to go free.
Cops seem to be OJing it, getting plenty of publicly available evidence tossed because they fucked up processing it
Ah well I haven’t followed all those details. Prosecutorial incompetence is always a possibility.
The most loud evidence since the arrest was the backpack with the gun and the manifesto. Except it was known pretty soon that the cops botched the ‘chain of custody’ for the backpack, as some officer had the backpack in her sole possession for an hour before delivering it to the station.
I keep being baffled as to why I don’t see any news about this evidence being thrown away. Maybe it was dismissed from the trial right away, idk.
That’s the idea of jury nullification: guilty, but we don’t care.
Right, and I think we are seeing increasing cases of jury nullification, especially for civil disobedience against ICE. However, the reality is that Lemmy is a bubble. Luigi and his alleged murder are nowhere near as popular among the greater population as he is here. So that’s why I think the chance of a hung jury is higher than nullification. Hung jury can happen if there is just one or a few people who refuse to convict. But jury nullification requires unanimity. There’s bound to be at least a few law & order boomer types on the jury. But only time will tell.
Ok, what is the evidence of the case? If you know.
All I have is the publicly available evidence, but that pretty strongly indicates guilt.
he was found a state over, at a mcdonalds. With a fake ID that was the same name that was used to check into manhatten, and for transport. with a bag containing a loaded unmarked 3d printed handgun that matched the footage.
He also had writings which are not public but have been stated to indicate his mindset prior to the murder, and a notebook that contained detailed travel plans and how to avoid capture.
Like pacifist said though, the police are tripping this case up, the biggest defense for Luigi at the moment is the ineptitude of the police during the arrest sequence and investigation. They have already succeeded in throwing out medical records due to improper acquisition, have been found wiretapping attorney lines (which IMO should be an immediate opposing party wins regardless), and are in the process of trying to throw the bag out that was found at mcdonalds due to improper search and seizure claims (although I don’t personally think this will happen, it’s pretty clear the search and seizure laws in that state clarify that a search will happen on any arrest regardless of case)
the only way I can see him getting a “innocent” verdict is Jury nullification, so I am not leaning on that, because even if found innocent on the second degree murder charges, based off publicly available evidence the prosecution still has a fairly strong case of stalking charges. Plus he still is facing the same charges at the state level as well, as the judges ruled it isn’t considered double jeopardy for someone to be trialed both federally and state side (which IMO is wrong but I digress)
I wont break down all the evidence since I dont want to get in an extended argument but looking at what you posted, given what we know publicly there is room for reasonable doubt.
Here would be my counter arguments without going into detail.
The descripencies in photos released by police during the manhunt.
The bag that was ditch with suspicious reports of its contents.
The improper handling of the weapon.
Not saying these for sure indicate innocence just there is still room for reasonable doubt in the court of public opinion.
I agree, there is room for reasonable doubt, I do believe if they manage to throw the bag out of the evidence he will get his doubt. I just don’t see them throwing the bag out.
I don’t think there is room for a non-guilty verdict though. At minimum he will have stalking conviction, at maximum he will get murder conviction. Outside of the jury nullification I don’t see a full innocent being done, but that will have to be done on both the state and federal cases.
To go back to your actual question though: Due to the publicly available evidence, I believe the older folk will have issue with if he goes free. I don’t believe any fights will happen in regards to it, but it would be a clear abuse of process (in the eyes of the public). It would be like OJ Simpsons “If I did it” all over again.
It’s a big reason why im firmly against the public getting involved with cases like this. It doesn’t matter what the jury says, the general public thinks he did it, due to the amount of news given on the case. His battle won’t end at the courts, he will have to fight that claim for the rest of his life and thats not fair to him if he is actually innocent.
The only way I can see the general public being ok with an innocent verdict, is if they make it absolutely clear that the evidence given to the public was embellished and not actually correct. That would be an insane turn of events though. If it ends up being a case of the evidence was thrown out/not being able to be used, or a jury nullification did somehow happen, people are going to complain and call it a systematic failure, regardless of cause or reasoning. Innocent until proven guilty is only correct in the court process. With current day media coverage you are guilty until proven innocent.