So its a real sound? Noise cancelling implants then?
Here is an interview with her. She had it bad:
“I do have a chronic health condition, which made it difficult to pinpoint if it was that that was suddenly getting worse, or whether it was [the damage to the ear] that was causing neurological changes, but I literally couldn’t walk straight; I was having what looked like strokes where I would collapse.” A violinist, she was told by doctors to give up playing. When the COVID pandemic arrived a few months in, she was forced to shield because of ultimately false suspicions that she had MS. “I got really frustrated,” De La Mata says. “I wasn’t getting any of the answers I wanted. It was, ‘Your hearing is fine, you’re young, you’re healthy,’ and it’s like, well clearly I’m not if I can’t walk and people are feeding me.”
https://thequietus.com/interviews/lola-de-la-mata-oceans-on-azimuth-tinnitus-interview/
I got rid of my handheld game after I noticed my thumb was starting to twitch while I was at rest.
Apparently, the same thing can happen with ears.
This is quite the opposite of what the image macro says
According to the macro, the ear is actually producing sounds. Sounds are vibrations. Apparently, the ear continues to vibrate without stimulation, the same way my thumb kept moving even if there was no game.
How is it ‘the opposite?’
edit = nontechnical article. https://guildofscientifictroubadours.com/2024/06/09/recording-tinnitus-as-it-happens-for-art-and-science/
Mawp. Mawp. Mawp.
I’ve always learned it comes from damaged hair cells inside the ear, how could it be anything but physical? Very surprised it can be picked up with a microphone in an anechoic chamber though
I have a kind of tinnitus that comes and goes based on how stressed out the tendons in my neck and jaw are, on one side, after a pretty serious physical injury.
I can basically massage away my tinnitus a good deal of the time, its only on the side that got fucked up.
Beyond that, I actually have exceptionally good hearing (for my age at least), and I often hear things other people don’t even notice, yay autism!
Poorly shielded electronic devices go
BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRTEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!Poorly shielded inductors in switch mode PSUs/old CRTs for me (Very common in older devices, low current causes the switching frequency to drop into the audible range.)
You can build your own tinnitus inducer with a cheapo 100kHz buck ic, put an air coil inductor on it, and then decrease the current until failure.
It’s called objective tinnitus. Tinnitus can have different causes, the damaged hair cells one is the most common.
I was with you until: “[…] but it can also be heard by the examiner (eg, by placing a stethoscope over the patient’s external auditory canal).” and now I’m even more confused
how could it be anything but physical?
The sound? Well, ultimately sounds are just those hairs and your cochlea and eardrum and all that getting hit by vibrations in the air and sending signals to your brain which get interpreted; damage the equipment so it sends signals even when there’s no vibrations in the air hitting it, and you have your non-physical sound. Same way phantom limb syndrome works.
However what if the damage doesn’t cause signals in the absence of sound? What if tinnitus is actually the cochlea itself (or something/s in the apparatus anyway) physically vibrating and producing that whining sound? Like a mosquito’s wings beating.
It seems like it could be some kind of feedback loop where the false signalling is actually inducing a physical response that can be recorded under ideal conditions. At the end of the day, the eardrum is an audio transducer, and every other such device we know of can make “fake noise” by being pushed into an unstable state.
Makes sense, and I’ve also read it’s very hard to study as well. Different causes with the same perceived sound sounds like a diagnostic nightmare
Why would a damaged hair cell make noise?
If you close your eyes tightly you can induce the perception of color. If you stand in a doorway and lift your arms to the side so that the backs of your hands are pressing against the inside of the door frame, keep pressing for 60 seconds, then step out of the doorway and relax your arms: it’ll feel like your arms are floating.
The body’s systems are complex and part of reliably filtering signal from noise in such systems is establishing a baseline while in a steady state. Our brains are pretty good at filtering out noise but the pressures or degradations which lead to tinnitus seem to trick the brain into accepting some noise as signal.
If you’re looking for a deep dive then the following paper does an excellent job of outling what we know and what our best guesses are so far: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0306987724002718
It’s jargon-laden but nothing someone armed with a dictionary can’t handle. 🙂
Right, but I’m not talking about perceiving noise, I’m talking about creating noise.
Maybe it’s like the way microphones and speakers are basically the same hardware, with the cells surrounding the hair in your ear canal vibrating those hairs “out” at high frequency for some reason.
Because they’re broken
They’re screaming
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Somebody much smarter than me will be able provide answers!
My tinnitus is at the very upper frequency range of my ability to hear, right around 13,000 Hz (I’m 60). Fortunately, I don’t notice it except in a quiet room.
extremely dumb question, but would a very loud 13kHz sound kill the cochlear cells that detect that specific frequency?
now we’re onto something. shoot that tinnitus dead with high frequency sound lasers
Nuke the tinnitus lol
A few rock concerts should take care of that, then.
Makes it worse from my experience. Tends to deaden everything but the squeal
Fucking voodoo shit, get the fuck out of here with that.
Mine doesn’t sound quite like that, but it did get a little better for a while after listening to that.
This is the one thing I don’t like about some doctors and scientists: they think they know everything, and in doing so they become lazy and dismissive (or they only care about money and fame). They should always be curious, and always seek to find the next truth, no matter what the general consensus is in the community. Good on De La Mata for challenging the status quo.
This is literally an example of a scientist being curious about something they don’t know and setting up an extremely far fetched experiment.
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What the fuck are you talking about?
Relax, this is a warning.
some doctors and scientists
The person you are replying to very clearly did not mean all doctors and scientists.
Which is a weird thing to bring up when the topic is scientists who were curious and solved a problem.
OK, not like I brought it up. Go be aggressive somewhere else.
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I took his comment to mean the people who accepted that tinnitus was not physical.
It’s the same logic and immigrants are lazy and stealing all the benefits of society.
That logic is: someone invented a stereotype and people ran with it instead of being curious and doing science
that’s a good philosophy in general. but I’m practice, it’s hard.
for every million “that can’t be” theories only a handful pan out. doing every “stupid” experiment is practically impossible.
Just another example of doctors not taking women seriously at first sadly. But at least she was vindicated.
I agree that that is a big problem in medicine, but how is this post an example of that? As far as I’m reading no-one was dismissing her claim of having tinnitus. They were just very surprised that it can apparently manifest as a physical sound, which was unexpected by both her and the scientists.
You’re right. I just got frustrated and commented without evidence.
The same could affect mens ears. As far as I’m aware there is a higher rate of tinnitus in men due to work related injuries. I’m sure they were not believed.
Pretty sure this isn’t the first time in history someone had this problem.
No, but women are MUCH more likely to have their symptoms dismissed as psychosomatic compared to men. Odds are good if you’re a woman that at least once in your life you will have to justify and defend your right to get proper treatment for a medical issue to a medical practitioner.
I have suffered from tinnitus my entire life (swimmers ear) and never received anything beyond ‘That sucks, good luck!’. I’m a man.
What you’re saying is a real thing that happens, it is in no way relevant to this conversation.
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I thought that was my brain sound
Brain coil whine
Ground loop feedback
Buddhist monks call this the sound of silence
As do, funnily enough, Simon and Garfunkel
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I meditate to high pitched ringing sound, tunes out thoughts.
I think the song is about emotional connection and not listening to each other?
