Hello World,

as some of you might be aware, there have been various accusations against one of our former community team members, Jordan Lund.

We have removed Jordan as a member of our community team a week ago, on 23rd of September, due to various behavior that we do not consider acceptable for a member of our team. We haven’t posted about this earlier, as we’re still in the progress of reviewing and making decisions, and we originally expected to be able to conclude this earlier, within a time frame where we could have presented the final outcome in the first post.

During his time with Lemmy.World, Jordan has been helping out our team with various admin-level tasks, as well as moderating a few large communities, including [email protected], [email protected] and [email protected]. As far as we can tell, most of his actions, including moderation actions, were in alignment with both our instance rules and also rules and spirit of the affected communities.

Unfortunately, this does not apply to all his actions. We have identified multiple cases of conduct that do not align with what we expect from members of our team. We currently do not have any explicit rules or code of conduct for our community team or other team members like instance admins on top of our ToS/bylaws, as we expected to have a common understanding of acceptable behavior. In the past we already had discussions with Jordan about some of this behavior and we believed that to be enough at that time. Going forward, we will be working on a code of conduct applicable to all members of our team, including community team and anyone above.

Being a member of our community team provides additional privileges for selected members, such as the ability to appoint community moderators, update our community spotlight or even banning users. In Jordan’s case this included permissions to appoint community moderators and ban users from the instance.

As of today, we are not aware of misuse of these additional privileges. Once we have reviewed other actions taken by Jordan we will also review these types of actions taken by Jordan in the recent past. If you believe that you or someone else was incorrectly banned from Lemmy.World, you’re welcome to appeal your ban by reaching out to our team. As we currently have some technical issues with our ticket system, I recommend sending an email to report at lemmy dot world for the time being, visting our Matrix room #general:lemmy.world or reaching out to @[email protected] directly, also possible via Matrix at @mrkaplan:lemmy.world.

Following our instance rules, we have a few cases in which we may remove community moderators from their communities:

  1. Grossly committing a violation of the Terms of Service
  2. Acting repeatedly against the local community rules
  3. Extended periods of inactivity, as evident by lack of public interaction and/or failure to respond to reports

We are still discussing whether we consider his behavior a “gross violation of our ToS”, as there are definitely some arguments to be made in favor of that. This includes for example using incorrect gendered pronouns, which we will update in our ToS in the coming days to make it more clear to everyone that this will not be tolerated. Due to his previous and current position we are still discussing what our final resolution to this issue will be as far as instance rules are concerned. Whether or not a person is trolling does not justify using incorrect pronouns for them. We have also informed Jordan that we expect his behavior in this regard to change immediately.

We’re currently also in conversations with other moderators of communities moderated by Jordan to review their position on his behavior within their communities and whether they believe that his actions in those communities were appropriate and in line with the community rules. As a reminder, the order of community moderators in the sidebar has direct impact on the moderator hierarchy, where a moderator listed earlier is able to remove any moderators later in the list. This means even if an action might not (yet) be taken by instance admins, other community moderators may be able to remove moderators if they’re no longer desired to be part of the team. Especially community rules about civility and respectful conduct do not appear to have been followed in a number of cases, and we are reviewing with the community moderators whether this is in line with other content they would usually moderate/not moderate.

It should also be noted that not all things reported to us are actually or clearly violating our rules, even if we may not agree with them. For example, we currently do not have rules about moderators removing other people’s arguments, especially as “misinformation”, to strengthen their own misguided arguments, and then continue to accuse the other side of misinformation later on. We do expect our team members to not use positions of power to “win arguments” or falsely accuse others of misinformation, when this isn’t actually the case. Therefore, while this example is not something we tolerate for members of our team, having this happen on community level (by a person who isn’t also holding a role above community mod at that time) is currently not something we are enforcing.

Once we have worked out a CoC for members of our team, we will post about this separately and also gather community feedback on whether you believe that enforcement of that (or parts of it, or more things) should also include moderators of Lemmy.World communities.

Additionally, we will also be looking at expanding our community team a bit in the near future, as we have both lost some people over time and recently also Jordan. We will also be posting about this separately, currently expected to be in a few weeks, with a description of expectations and responsibilities.

We will also be updating this post over the coming days until we have finished our review and actions.

  • GreenKnight23@lemmy.world
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    3 hours ago

    oh man, thank god. dude was a shitstain of a mod and never applied rules unilaterally.

    same kind of shit mods that made Reddit what it is today.

    guess I can unblock the communities he was a mod in now, but they’re probably dead anyway.

  • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
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    22 hours ago

    Personally I don’t think mods who shield someone like UniversalMonk for months should be allowed to mod.

    • Riddick3001@lemmy.world
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      16 hours ago

      Ah this whole thing clarifies for me what’s been going on for a while. Tnx!

      I remember Blaze and others following suite setting up alternative instances. Btw, nice initiative. Some people saw that as breaking up the Lemmy experience, because Lemmy didn’t have enough Lemmirians. In some case it was just the strict mod rules, like too much rulez, and therefore nothing different could b3 posted, in other cases some got tired of the formal and dry posts, and prefered a more informal experience, probably.

      So they set up their own shop. Only good to have alternative experiences so that’s good . In light of these revelations it might also have been a bit of personal disagreement, culture wars maybe, or just a different preference.

      Ofcourse, I don’t like powerdrunk mods as they kill the mood. I condemn arbitrary use of community rules by egomaniacs. Those communities I try to avoid.

      But yeah, it’s sad to realize there are some people doing exactly this with a few of the bigger communities. Hope these revelations lead to a new understanding and improve the overall Lemmy experience.

      • goferking (he/him)@lemmy.sdf.org
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        6 hours ago

        Really reinforces how bad lw is at anything PR. Which is ironic considering how much they love using it.

        Still waiting for an update to their we should get along with flat earthers policy plan

  • Stamets@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    1 day ago

    Following our instance rules, we have a few cases in which we may remove community moderators from their communities:

    1. Grossly committing a violation of the Terms of Service

    Alright so I looked at those Terms of Service.

    1.1 - Attacks on People? Check. He’s repeatedly gone out of his way to harass people as demonstrated both via his modlog and the litany of comments he’s left on YPTB

    1.2 - Discrimination of Minorities? Check as demonstrated by the fact that he’s been banned from the entirety of blahaj for transphobic behavior.

    3 - System Disruption? Arguable considering he’s permanently ruined any credibility that /c/News and /c/World had and has driven so many users to actively avoid lemmy.world at all possible costs. Myself included now.

    8 - Misinformation? Check. Removing someones post for a lack of understanding is one thing but you said that you (Admins) talked to Jordan about his behavior on the Canadian thing. Meaning that you knew it was wrong and had told him it was wrong. He repeatedly and continually doubles down on that specific thing. That is misinformation. Misinformation that is then being enforced with the abilities of a moderator. Which also then slides into 1.1 - Attacks on People as he’s actively lying and punishing a dude when he did nothing wrong.

    We are still discussing whether we consider his behavior a “gross violation of our ToS”, as there are definitely some arguments to be made in favor of that.

    At this stage there are no valid arguments to be made against it. The evidence is overwhelming and has been piling up for months and months and months and months and months.

    This is a complete no brainer. You have admins of other trusted instances refusing to have anything to do with him. You’ve got whole swaths of users that are outright boycotting Lemmy.world as a whole and I’m not talking about my random dumb ass. I mean for literal years I’ve been asked why I set up on Lemmy.world. This entire experience has not done anything to sway anyones fears but has done a lot to reconfirm them.

    • T00l_shed@lemmy.world
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      6 hours ago

      Sorry I’m a casual user, I know a little about this person, but do you mind clarifying the Canadian thing?

    • goferking (he/him)@lemmy.sdf.org
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      17 hours ago

      It’s still amazing but unsurprising they only commented to link here.

      https://lemmy.world/post/35918814

      This entire post here is just an announcement to say they removed him from a position people didn’t think was still a thing or didn’t know about, then PR to give them an out if nothing happens.

      Even in this post they get an out from their users saying it’s fine because they didn’t see it or ignore the comm completely cause they think it’s just a hate place.

      • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        13 hours ago

        Look we didn’t care then, we don’t care now. We removed him from a community no on uses, keeping him on the ones that make us have to clean up from his messes, what’s the big problem with that? We did our job. Now shut up or you’re banned.

    • ripcord@lemmy.world
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      1 day ago

      Incidentally, tiny data point - I’m fairly active here and this is the first I’ve heard of any of this. And in general the only times I’ve seen him has been what seemd like good mod behavior.

      Not saying any of this didnt happen, he shouldn’t be removed, etc. Just that it definitely hasn’t been obvious to everyone.

      • goferking (he/him)@lemmy.sdf.org
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        15 hours ago

        It’s one of those things where it was more evident when interactions happened in a space he didn’t moderate or where couldn’t get things removed.

        Pattern is usually:

        • starts out nice
        • if gets questioned 1st response nice but occasionally unrelated answer
        • if still questioned tangents and increasingly escalates tone when answering
        • proven wrong using their own words or rules they would go on attack then be silent.
        • if still continues on a location they mod will then try to find reason to ban
        • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          13 hours ago

          And you didn’t even cover the stuff from months ago, just in the last few weeks.

          The admin team is just covering for Jordan, like they’re all on the same team of silencing dissent and need to cover their fall guy.

    • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      1 day ago

      As a reminder, I’ll donate to .world’s servers if they remove him as a mod before the end of September 2025, UTC.

      How many rules does he need to break as a mod before they do something?

    • solrize@lemmy.ml
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      1 day ago

      My own quitting lemmy.world from a gradual buildup of annoyance, but if I had to condense it to a single incident, it would be the one where they banned discussing the wrong kind of cat food. I don’t think Jordan L. had anything to do with that. I still chuckle over the whole thing and see it as showing failure of the fediverse concept.

      • KombatWombat@lemmy.world
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        4 hours ago

        Yeah the cat food thing was so stupid and really divided the vegan community on Lemmy. When I was first reading Stamets’ YPTB post I was wondering if it was the same user but that was an admin named Rooki. They were both just using similar tactics of “misinformation” removals to win arguments while being incorrect themselves.

        Here’s the context for anyone wanting it.

      • DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social
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        1 day ago

        That you could say fuck that noise and jump to a different instance is proof of the fediverse concept, not a failure.

        “The fediverse is flawed if a single instance does some moderation I don’t like” is some absolute clown logic… and then you went to .ml instead lol

  • null_dot@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    1 day ago

    I like the transparency on lemmy.world around this sort of thing.

    I also appreciate that volunteer admins / mods of suitable calibre must be tough to find. It seems to me that the type of people who would make good mods just wouldn’t be interested in the role.

    IDK what lemmy.world’s community team is?

    Also, it’s not really clear what role JL presently has, if any. Like if he was removed from the community team does he still have other responsibilities ?

    • MrKaplan@lemmy.world
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      1 day ago

      Jordan no longer has any responsibilities or privileges beyond being a community moderator at this time.

      The original description of our community teams can be found here, but over time this has changed a bit. We’re looking to have this more clearly defined again and are talking to the two active members of the team to figure out a good way forward. Currently, this includes for example reviewing communities with unresolved reports that keep piling up, trying to find new moderators for those communities, and it can also include helping out with instance bans to provide more coverage throughout the day when trolls or spammers show up.

      As far as transparency is concerned, there’s still a lot of room for improvement, especially on the timing aspect. We’ve also had more reports in the past about Jordan, but they were either resulting in internal conversations or not necessarily enough to take further actions.

      • expr@programming.dev
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        8 hours ago

        Why the fuck is he still a mod? He’s a well-known fascist and bigot. You should remove him as a moderator immediately. It’s pretty fucking obvious to everyone but you, apparently.

        • KombatWombat@lemmy.world
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          4 hours ago

          Edit: Ignore this, I somehow misread the section detailing their conditions for removing mods as removing members of their team. They are more active than I thought, but it sounds like they at least require a fairly high bar for gross violations, although this may qualify.

          ~~Do they remove people as mods? My understanding is that’s up to the other mods of the relevant community. I would expect admins to generally stay out of that unless the community is actually abandoned. Otherwise, they should let mods run communities independently when possible.

          They expressed their distaste for JL’s actions, but I would think it’s not an admin’s job to judge a mod as unworthy of running their community unless they do something egregious enough to warrant an instance ban.~~

  • Zagorath@aussie.zone
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    1 day ago

    As a reminder, the order of community moderators in the sidebar has direct impact on the moderator hierarchy, where a moderator listed earlier is able to remove any moderators later in the list.

    A reminder that mod order does not always federate correctly, so you may need to head to LW to see it correctly.

          • ccunning@lemmy.world
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            1 day ago

            Yeah I don’t make a habit of going off instance so that was just my initial reaction to seeing the url.

            I did eventually follow the link and read enough of one of the posts to get the idea.

            • GreyEyedGhost@lemmy.ca
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              13 hours ago

              You’re really limiting yourself there. The whole idea is that you’re connected with a bunch of other instances where you can see things that aren’t hosted on your instance.

              That’s kind of like saying you only visit art galleries that are in New York, because that’s where you live. There’s a lot of great stuff there, sure, but you’re missing out. And in this analogy, you have a free ticket to a bunch of other cities with interesting art galleries of their own.

        • MrKaplan@lemmy.world
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          1 day ago

          that community primarily is people reporting on behavior of moderators that they disagree with

          • Nima@leminal.space
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            1 day ago

            its more of a community that functions like “AITA” (am I the asshole?) where they list the ban and reason and ask if the community believes the ban was justified or not.

            the post detailing the behavior or jordan lund was actually not within the true rules of the community, but was allowed considering just how many jordan lund posts had been made in the entirety of the community.

            he is quite notorious everywhere for his extreme moderation habits. stamets was just detailed enough to put time into documenting as much of that behavior as was possible in a single post.

            considering that lemmy world is a sort of catch-all for a lot of first time lemmy users, its reasonable to be concerned by such extreme moderation.

            • Riddick3001@lemmy.world
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              such extreme moderation.

              I don’t have that experience. In the before JL times it was worse, and there where no clear rules set. He and his then team set up some clear rules with the mod team then, discussed them openly with the community, and was strict with the following the rules but usually pretty consistent afaik. That’s quite a rare and important attribute in modding. Doesn’t mean I always agreed, but then that’s impossible. With some people in certain instances and commnuties any sort of good conversation is almost impossible. So there are always some unhappy ones.

              Well that’s my take. Don’t have all the bits of his " mod casefile" and that’s not of my business… He’s always operated in good faith and haven’t seen any weird mod shit from him. Good mod.

                • Riddick3001@lemmy.world
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                  12 hours ago

                  I can only speak from my own experience, since I don’t have any other, and I haven’t seen nor experienced directly any weird stuff.

                  But it’s clear that some users have a negative experience, and they have elaborately stated their case. One can acknowledge that.

                  But one experience doesn’t make the other untrue , though I’m not personally invested like others seem to be. Also, changing or dethroning a mod, won’t solve too much of the long-term problems large community have, imo. Remember, that they do it all free and they don’t get paid nor a sponsorship out of this. That’s why I feel this subject requires proper attention and a balanced approached to find out what has happened. I can only trust that @ Kaplan and @ Ruud and their people, are doing exactly that

      • Iced Raktajino@startrek.website
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        19 hours ago

        I would take any and everything you see in YPTB with the largest grains of salt. Most of the posts there are from frequent flyers apparently unaware and unable to see that they are the problem. The comments to those are from similar frequent flyers. Basically every post there is framed to make OP entirely the victim and often are turned into some kind of conspiracy-laden narrative about the mod(s) involved. Frankly, YPTB and similar communities are beyond redemption, IMO.

        I will admit I do not know (nor particularly care to know) the specifics of this case, but some of the communities Jordan mods are targets for some of the worst people in this place, and he’s only human. So don’t crucify me if there’s some egregious offense I’m ignorant of and don’t take this statement as a direct defense of that. I’m merely pointing out that the guy takes a LOT of abuse from some real, uh, how do I put this charitably…“characters”.

        Lemmy, of late, has lost many of its more rational voices, so please keep that in mind and exercise caution when asking the inmates what they think about the rules of the asylum.

  • chloroken@lemmy.ml
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    1 day ago

    Cool corpo speak. I reckon there’s something sincere buried in there, but I can’t be sure.

    Personally, I think that .world deserves Jordan Lund because he exudes libbed-out Discord mod energy. It’s the perfect match.

    • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      13 hours ago

      Jordan is essentially the perfect person for .world

      If you like them, you like .world. If you don’t, you understand the issues people have.

  • dohpaz42@lemmy.world
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    1 day ago

    Sounds like you guys painted yourselves into a bureaucratic corner and now you can’t find your way out. Too many fucking rules.