Bc I believe self defense is the only time killing somebody is ever really possibly justified.
Put him on trial, send him to jail, whatever. I’m just not on board with mob justice.
I think the real marker that stands out for what makes a neoconservative is the idea that equality shouldn’t be a goal of society, and a society still requires a survival of the fittest darwinism like you would see in nature (except of course when survival of the fittest doesn’t benefit them, then they feel their money should be able to guarantee law and order that will serve them). The idea that some people were just born to win. Some people count and some people don’t.
I believe in striving towards a world where everybody counts and the rules are applied equally. Everyone deserves a fair trial/due process instead of mob justice. If everyone counts, that means even the people you don’t like still have to be treated equally. That means even Charlie Kirk counts.
I can’t say I feel sad for him, but what happened to him wasn’t justified and it didn’t actually change anything. If anything it just gave the Trump admin more of a reason to claim victimhood, and I actually worry they played some part in what happened to him.
Did Hitler murder anyone? Look I understand Godwin’s Law is a thing, but Kirk was a literal fucking fascist. Not because I disagree with him, but because he vehemently, and frequently, disparaged minorities, and proselytized abhorrent views.
He deserved to die, as violently as he did. And so should his supporters.
Look if you don’t believe in equality you can just come out and say that, but I believe that everyone counts. Even the bad people.
I understand how frustrating that can feel, but just because a bunch of corrupt right wing assholes would like you to believe this isn’t true, everyone is supposed to be entitled to due process. If you can’t understand why you don’t get to personally pick and choose who is entitled, then you have a lot more in common with the right than you seem to realize.
Normalizing mob justice over the rule of law may provide you with an immediate sense of gratification, but it sets a very dangerous precedent. Where does it end? If it’s ok for you, why is it not ok for everyone? How do you believe you could ever realistically enforce it only being ok for situations you believe are justified? You can’t. That’s why people decided to start holding trials instead of grabbing their pitchforks.
Do you understand what mob justice looks like on the right? It wears hoods and burns crosses. When you normalize mob justice over due process, you help humanity and civil society take a step backwards.
You’re not somehow entitled to be judge, jury, and executioner bc you believe you’re somehow protecting or avenging the people that Kirk harmed. That’s literally the job of a judge, jury, and if the judge and jury decide, the executioner.
I don’t believe in equality. But I believe in egalitarianism. Add to that, respect is automatic, disrespect is earned.
And once you start calling for the extermination or subjugation of others – while having a massive pulpit regularly speaking to millions – you’ve lost more than respect, you’ve become so dangerous to society that you’ve lost your freedom to stay alive.
I don’t like the death penalty, because that’s government sanctioned murder. But I’m okay with the proletariat killing their subjugators, or killing the people convincing their subjugators to be more oppressive.
I don’t abide by fascism. I don’t tolerate fascists. I abide by and tolerate their immediate dismissal from continued breathing of oxygen.
Disrespect is earned, but not everyone will agree with what you believe is respect vs disrespect. There are examples throughout history of scapegoats being punished for their perceived role in oppression. Hitler used propaganda to make accusations about Jews helping to keep the German workers oppressed.
If everyone believes they’re justified in taking the law into their own hands, how do you ensure innocent individuals aren’t swept up in mob justice?
I didn’t mean to imply that kirk directly killed a dude. I object to the idea that “nobody deserves to be murdered”. There are people that deserve to be killed, all of them are murderers.
Tolerating intolerance is just supporting intolerance by proxy. Mob justice is the world Kirk set out to create. Kirk got what he intended to inflict on others. Its not justice or justified, but it is what he deserved. That’s a fine line but its real morality even if its not fair or done the right way.
Being afraid that bad things will happen to bad people who will use it to justify things they were already planning to do is simply cowardice. Anybody who looks at the data knows right wing murderers are around 50x as prevalent as left wing ones. There’s no reason to impose a false equivalency except cowardice.
I don’t even really support the death penalty in most cases, so I guess we just disagree there. I don’t even believe killing somebody is much of a punishment. It’s eye for an eye, but if the idea is to actually punish somebody death kinda seems like an easy way out.
Mob justice is the world Kirk set out to create.
Yeah they want a world where there is no equality, and there is no justice except for those who have the resources to buy it or take it by force. If that sounds like the kind of world you want to live in, then I can’t argue with you. Sounds like a shitty place to me, and one we’re already more than half way to establishing. That is basically social darwinism.
There is a big difference between not tolerating something and murder. I have a lot of shit I won’t tolerate, and I believe there are times when an ass kicking is sometimes unfortunately necessary. But even that should be a last result.
When I say I worry, I mean I worry that this is essentially a set up by the right to give them justification. Bc they do still rely on the illusion of justification. Their entire movement relies on selling a narrative of victimhood to their supporters.
What do you believe actually changes by Charlie Kirk being murdered? Maybe you feel a sense of that guy got what he deserved, but does that actually change anything that’s happening? Especially if the people that are setting out to destroy what remains of equality and justice were the ones that did it bc it actually helps them achieve their goals?
Essentially it’s like they threw you a little treat that won’t sustain you beyond that feeling. In return they get to continue bulldozing through society and destroying everything that it took hundreds of years to build before and decades after the civil rights movement. If you’re ok with that, it sounds like you might be better off just joining their team.
Your argument is basically “they should be held to a different standard”
They tore up the social contract. If you abide by a contract that is torn up all you’re doing is not getting paid. And the payment here is fair trials, even handed media and the right to live.
Dem politicians were killed in minnesota. You and I are on their list of people to kill. Texas governor pardoned a guy who shot up protests. Once they kill enough people there will be nobody left to stand by you or me.
The problem is you feel safe that as long as you say the magic words they aren’t coming for you. Thats what melissa hortman thought. That’s what charlie kirk thought. Both lf them were wrong
No the argument is they should be held to the same standard but they’re crooks, murderers, and con artists. We need to use the tools we still have to hold ground.
Your argument seems to be since they’re already crooks, instead of strategizing and attacking their weak spots, we should throw the rule of law out the window and just all be crooks, murderers, and con artists
They tore up the social contract. If you abide by a contract that is torn up all you’re doing is not getting paid. And the payment here is fair trials, even handed media and the right to live.
They are in the process of tearing it up. I have a news flash for you, what they are hoping to achieve for all of America is essentially just the default way of life where I grew up. There is no justice for anyone unless you purchase it or have connections.
If they succeed, and they take control of everything (which they have not managed to do, yet regardless of what you may think) that means it doesn’t matter if you live in a blue city or a blue state. You’re under their control. When this motherfucker has his reason to believably call for martial law in all American cities, it doesn’t matter if you’re in NYC or Meridian, MS, nothing exists to protect your rights. The rule of law will only be used to protect and benefit the wealthy.
The problem is you feel safe that as long as you say the magic words they aren’t coming for you.
Lmao I haven’t felt safe since Jan 20th. I grew up not feeling safe, but at least then there was a federal government that could possibly come into the corrupt town where I lived and investigate or step in if there was a serious threat. That option is just gone for the time being, but I’m not about to just cave to fear and say if it’s broken toss it out the fucking window.
Do you actually understand why the civil rights act had to be created and enforced in the first place? Do you know who wins when you stop fighting to hold on to the protections you have? The people with the money and resources. Maybe that’s you, but it’s not me and it never has been.
Literally a few weeks ago some gun loving psycho with connections to local law enforcement, threatened to hunt me down and shoot me and my family bc I called out a bunch of rich conservatives with heritage foundation ties that held their annual meeting in my city. Guess who I had to turn to for help when that happened? Fucking nobody.
Anyone that believes where we’re at now is as bad as it’s going to get, is in for a rude awakening over the next 3 years. (It actually feels good to know we’re almost one down already).
You would have to be privileged as fuck or just completely fucking clueless to actually believe that using brawn over brain to take on the people that are literally in control of every federal agency, the entire military, and all the military grade weapons that come with it, is a strategy that results in anything other than death.
If you’re looking for an easy way to commit assisted suicide, by all means follow that strategy.
I’m planning to keep fighting to hold on to the scraps of democracy we have left, for as long as I can, even when people threaten me.
If you can’t understand the strategy behind holding ground vs just giving in when shit gets rough, be prepared to never get any of it back.
That is the future when you give into this irrational bullshit. “What’s the point of holding on to what’s broken? Laws were never as effective as they should have been anyway.” Bc you don’t get a say in what they’re willing to offer you to replace it. This is the same stupid fucking strategy they use for Union busting, and people still fall for it.
If something isn’t working the way you want, it’s just so much easier to let it all be thrown out the window.
Did he actually murder anyone?
Bc I believe self defense is the only time killing somebody is ever really possibly justified.
Put him on trial, send him to jail, whatever. I’m just not on board with mob justice.
I think the real marker that stands out for what makes a neoconservative is the idea that equality shouldn’t be a goal of society, and a society still requires a survival of the fittest darwinism like you would see in nature (except of course when survival of the fittest doesn’t benefit them, then they feel their money should be able to guarantee law and order that will serve them). The idea that some people were just born to win. Some people count and some people don’t.
I believe in striving towards a world where everybody counts and the rules are applied equally. Everyone deserves a fair trial/due process instead of mob justice. If everyone counts, that means even the people you don’t like still have to be treated equally. That means even Charlie Kirk counts.
I can’t say I feel sad for him, but what happened to him wasn’t justified and it didn’t actually change anything. If anything it just gave the Trump admin more of a reason to claim victimhood, and I actually worry they played some part in what happened to him.
Did Hitler murder anyone? Look I understand Godwin’s Law is a thing, but Kirk was a literal fucking fascist. Not because I disagree with him, but because he vehemently, and frequently, disparaged minorities, and proselytized abhorrent views.
He deserved to die, as violently as he did. And so should his supporters.
Look if you don’t believe in equality you can just come out and say that, but I believe that everyone counts. Even the bad people.
I understand how frustrating that can feel, but just because a bunch of corrupt right wing assholes would like you to believe this isn’t true, everyone is supposed to be entitled to due process. If you can’t understand why you don’t get to personally pick and choose who is entitled, then you have a lot more in common with the right than you seem to realize.
Normalizing mob justice over the rule of law may provide you with an immediate sense of gratification, but it sets a very dangerous precedent. Where does it end? If it’s ok for you, why is it not ok for everyone? How do you believe you could ever realistically enforce it only being ok for situations you believe are justified? You can’t. That’s why people decided to start holding trials instead of grabbing their pitchforks.
Do you understand what mob justice looks like on the right? It wears hoods and burns crosses. When you normalize mob justice over due process, you help humanity and civil society take a step backwards.
You’re not somehow entitled to be judge, jury, and executioner bc you believe you’re somehow protecting or avenging the people that Kirk harmed. That’s literally the job of a judge, jury, and if the judge and jury decide, the executioner.
I don’t believe in equality. But I believe in egalitarianism. Add to that, respect is automatic, disrespect is earned.
And once you start calling for the extermination or subjugation of others – while having a massive pulpit regularly speaking to millions – you’ve lost more than respect, you’ve become so dangerous to society that you’ve lost your freedom to stay alive.
I don’t like the death penalty, because that’s government sanctioned murder. But I’m okay with the proletariat killing their subjugators, or killing the people convincing their subjugators to be more oppressive.
I don’t abide by fascism. I don’t tolerate fascists. I abide by and tolerate their immediate dismissal from continued breathing of oxygen.
Disrespect is earned, but not everyone will agree with what you believe is respect vs disrespect. There are examples throughout history of scapegoats being punished for their perceived role in oppression. Hitler used propaganda to make accusations about Jews helping to keep the German workers oppressed.
If everyone believes they’re justified in taking the law into their own hands, how do you ensure innocent individuals aren’t swept up in mob justice?
I didn’t mean to imply that kirk directly killed a dude. I object to the idea that “nobody deserves to be murdered”. There are people that deserve to be killed, all of them are murderers.
Tolerating intolerance is just supporting intolerance by proxy. Mob justice is the world Kirk set out to create. Kirk got what he intended to inflict on others. Its not justice or justified, but it is what he deserved. That’s a fine line but its real morality even if its not fair or done the right way.
Being afraid that bad things will happen to bad people who will use it to justify things they were already planning to do is simply cowardice. Anybody who looks at the data knows right wing murderers are around 50x as prevalent as left wing ones. There’s no reason to impose a false equivalency except cowardice.
I don’t even really support the death penalty in most cases, so I guess we just disagree there. I don’t even believe killing somebody is much of a punishment. It’s eye for an eye, but if the idea is to actually punish somebody death kinda seems like an easy way out.
Yeah they want a world where there is no equality, and there is no justice except for those who have the resources to buy it or take it by force. If that sounds like the kind of world you want to live in, then I can’t argue with you. Sounds like a shitty place to me, and one we’re already more than half way to establishing. That is basically social darwinism.
There is a big difference between not tolerating something and murder. I have a lot of shit I won’t tolerate, and I believe there are times when an ass kicking is sometimes unfortunately necessary. But even that should be a last result.
When I say I worry, I mean I worry that this is essentially a set up by the right to give them justification. Bc they do still rely on the illusion of justification. Their entire movement relies on selling a narrative of victimhood to their supporters.
What do you believe actually changes by Charlie Kirk being murdered? Maybe you feel a sense of that guy got what he deserved, but does that actually change anything that’s happening? Especially if the people that are setting out to destroy what remains of equality and justice were the ones that did it bc it actually helps them achieve their goals?
Essentially it’s like they threw you a little treat that won’t sustain you beyond that feeling. In return they get to continue bulldozing through society and destroying everything that it took hundreds of years to build before and decades after the civil rights movement. If you’re ok with that, it sounds like you might be better off just joining their team.
I think you’re doing their work for them.
Your argument is basically “they should be held to a different standard”
They tore up the social contract. If you abide by a contract that is torn up all you’re doing is not getting paid. And the payment here is fair trials, even handed media and the right to live.
Dem politicians were killed in minnesota. You and I are on their list of people to kill. Texas governor pardoned a guy who shot up protests. Once they kill enough people there will be nobody left to stand by you or me.
The problem is you feel safe that as long as you say the magic words they aren’t coming for you. Thats what melissa hortman thought. That’s what charlie kirk thought. Both lf them were wrong
No the argument is they should be held to the same standard but they’re crooks, murderers, and con artists. We need to use the tools we still have to hold ground.
Your argument seems to be since they’re already crooks, instead of strategizing and attacking their weak spots, we should throw the rule of law out the window and just all be crooks, murderers, and con artists
They are in the process of tearing it up. I have a news flash for you, what they are hoping to achieve for all of America is essentially just the default way of life where I grew up. There is no justice for anyone unless you purchase it or have connections.
If they succeed, and they take control of everything (which they have not managed to do, yet regardless of what you may think) that means it doesn’t matter if you live in a blue city or a blue state. You’re under their control. When this motherfucker has his reason to believably call for martial law in all American cities, it doesn’t matter if you’re in NYC or Meridian, MS, nothing exists to protect your rights. The rule of law will only be used to protect and benefit the wealthy.
Lmao I haven’t felt safe since Jan 20th. I grew up not feeling safe, but at least then there was a federal government that could possibly come into the corrupt town where I lived and investigate or step in if there was a serious threat. That option is just gone for the time being, but I’m not about to just cave to fear and say if it’s broken toss it out the fucking window.
Do you actually understand why the civil rights act had to be created and enforced in the first place? Do you know who wins when you stop fighting to hold on to the protections you have? The people with the money and resources. Maybe that’s you, but it’s not me and it never has been.
Literally a few weeks ago some gun loving psycho with connections to local law enforcement, threatened to hunt me down and shoot me and my family bc I called out a bunch of rich conservatives with heritage foundation ties that held their annual meeting in my city. Guess who I had to turn to for help when that happened? Fucking nobody.
Anyone that believes where we’re at now is as bad as it’s going to get, is in for a rude awakening over the next 3 years. (It actually feels good to know we’re almost one down already).
You would have to be privileged as fuck or just completely fucking clueless to actually believe that using brawn over brain to take on the people that are literally in control of every federal agency, the entire military, and all the military grade weapons that come with it, is a strategy that results in anything other than death.
If you’re looking for an easy way to commit assisted suicide, by all means follow that strategy.
I’m planning to keep fighting to hold on to the scraps of democracy we have left, for as long as I can, even when people threaten me.
If you can’t understand the strategy behind holding ground vs just giving in when shit gets rough, be prepared to never get any of it back.
That is the future when you give into this irrational bullshit. “What’s the point of holding on to what’s broken? Laws were never as effective as they should have been anyway.” Bc you don’t get a say in what they’re willing to offer you to replace it. This is the same stupid fucking strategy they use for Union busting, and people still fall for it.
If something isn’t working the way you want, it’s just so much easier to let it all be thrown out the window.