i absolutely hate how the modern web just fails to load if one has javascript turned off. i, as a user, should be able to switch off javascript and have the site work exactly as it does with javascript turned on. it’s not a hard concept, people.

but you ask candidates to explain “graceful degradation” and they’ll sit and look at you with a blank stare.

  • Korne127@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    I, as a user, should be able to switch off javascript and have the site work exactly as it does with javascript turned on.

    I mean… many websites rely on JavaScript, so it’s kind of obvious that they don’t work without it. If it would work without JS in the first place, the website wouldn’t need to embed any JS code.

    • katy ✨@piefed.blahaj.zoneOP
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      2 days ago

      many websites rely on JavaScript,

      which is the problem that most people don’t understand the concept of graceful degradation

    • adarza@lemmy.ca
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      2 days ago

      website wouldn’t need to embed any JS code.

      other than the 20 trackers and ad scripts.

    • Azzu@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      2 days ago

      There’s a difference between “wouldn’t work” and “wouldn’t work as nicely”. That’s what this post is about :D Most websites would still work in the same basic way without js.

      • Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de
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        2 days ago

        OP really muddled the waters by writing:

        exactly as it does with javascript turned on

        That’s obviously impossible and wouldn’t be degraded.

          • Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de
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            1 day ago

            It’s either exactly the same, or it’s gracefully degraded. You’re asking for two opposite things at once.

            For what it’s worth I support the notion that fundamental functionality should be supported without Javascript, with good old form submissions.

            But I also recognise that you can’t get the exact same behaviour without javascript initiated background GETs and POSTs. Easy example: A scrollable map that streams in chunks as you move it.

      • Possibly linux@lemmy.zip
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        1 day ago

        Why would someone spend tons of time on something that isn’t needed? Only a few people even know how to turn off JavaScript and chances are they will just turn it back on since nothing works.

    • Björn Tantau@swg-empire.de
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      2 days ago

      Most websites out there could work fine without JavaScript. They rely on it because they can’t be bothered to be better.

      • Possibly linux@lemmy.zip
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        1 day ago

        Have you ever tried building a modern page without JavaScript.

        You can do a lot of things with HTML5 and CSS. It just is very complicated and painful. It isn’t intuitive and the behavior will vary across browsers. What could be a little JavaScript turns into a ton of write only CSS.

        • Björn Tantau@swg-empire.de
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          1 day ago

          Yes, that’s my job.

          The point isn’t to emulate the JavaScript functionality somehow. The point is to simply fetch the desired information as a new page load when necessary. The page should work in lynx.

    • MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip
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      2 days ago

      so it’s kind of obvious that they don’t work without it.

      Uhm, the web is to share content, not to play JS. That’s what graceful degradation is for: the primary usecase should still work, even if the secondary or tertiary doesn’t.

      • Korne127@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        Uhm, the web is to share content, not to play JS

        The web doesn’t have a single unified purpose. Even if I hate it as a programming language, JavaScript if the basis almost all client-side browser operations build upon.

        Sure, a simple website which just contains information works without it, but if you design a website in which the client does anything interactively and not everything should be processed server-side, it’s not really possible. No matter if you’re talking about a web game, something like Google Earth or an in-browser editor.