• rbesfe@lemmy.ca
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    7 days ago

    Roses are red

    Violets are blue

    Oversimplified political apathy

    Is what gave you Trump 2

      • bishbosh@lemm.ee
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        7 days ago

        Democrats better not put forward candidates people are apathetic about then.

        • Mniot@programming.dev
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          6 days ago

          Responsibility lies with “The Democrats” (some sort of far away secret group that I can’t influence) and not with any American. If those Democrats can’t give me my perfect candidate, then I’ll just give up and let the fascists win. Also, I can’t figure out why they won’t do this–my ideal liberal candidate would appeal to the majority of Americans!

          • Saint_La_Croix_Crosse@midwest.social
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            6 days ago

            It is never the party’s job to appeal to voters. There is one designated party that is just owed support and should never have to craft another appeal besides “The Republicans can’t fill out the paperwork properly, that is why we will build the wall faster, put people in concentration camps at greater numbers, and do fascism better and more politely than the dumb, knuckle-dragging fascists”

    • Saint_La_Croix_Crosse@midwest.social
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      6 days ago

      No, Democrats and Liberals using Trump 2 as an excuse to be vocally pro-genocide and forcing people to accept pro-fascism is what caused Trump 2, since the party cannot fail only be failed by voters willing to accept fascism but not turned off by crude, ham-fisted forms of fascism. The problem, supposedly, is people that oppose Trump’s policies, rather than just needing the Trump policies being polite. It is the Democrat’s need to always adopt all of the previous Republican policies, and their only goal is being the Republicans, but polite. If Genocide and fascism is not a red line, but completely acceptable to support, as long as you can imagine another regime doing the genocide slightly worse, there is no evil you will not work for and support.

      • rbesfe@lemmy.ca
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        5 days ago

        Voting is not a sign of support for everything the candidate does. It’s a choice for who you want to be in the position, and none of the above is not a possible outcome.

        Choosing to not vote means you’re choosing whoever the majority of voters pick

    • MetalMachine@feddit.nl
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      6 days ago

      Or maybe, we can use this to protest and vote for political change. We cannot allow lobbies to buy politicians anymore, and campaign spending must be capped.

  • AllHailTheSheep@sh.itjust.works
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    7 days ago

    here’s an example for you to drive home why sentiment like this is dumb and creates false equivalencies. when I was 14, I worked at a grocery store. there were two managers that I would get scheduled with. they both sucked and were awful human beings. however, one was a known child predator. which one do you think I’d rather get scheduled with?

          • sporkler@lemmy.world
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            6 days ago

            Honestly I’m wondering what part of what I said lead you to believe what you claim to believe I said? Do you believe that Biden was actually Netanyahu in disguise? Do you believe that the guy in office who wants to ship Gazans off to Egypt so he can build a resort on what was their homes?

            No, I think you believe that triggering Americans with false equivalencies is entertaining, and you’re probably right.

            What I’m having trouble with is deciding if you’re pushing this narrative for russia, to keep Americans distracted while krasnov disassembles the whole thing from inside, or if you’re supporting Israeli PR, making everyone look toward the big bad guy instead of the big bad guy

            • BrainInABox@lemmy.ml
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              See, this is why I don’t consider BlueMAGA liberals to be any better than regular MAGA; they behave exactly the same. When challenged they start throwing out obviously absurd falsehood and playing dumb (like trying to claim Biden had no involvement in Isreal’s genocide, or that Biden didn’t propose ship the people of Gaza to Egypt before Trump ever did), not because they actually think any of it is true (nobody alive seriously believes that the Biden administration had nothing to do with Isreal’s genocide), but just to frustrate and annoy by wasting your time.

              They then immediately jump to accusing all who disagree with them of being secret agents of a grand Qanon-style conspiracy with lots of codenames and internet lore.

        • sporkler@lemmy.world
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          6 days ago

          Oh, I get it, the .ml instance is where the r/conservatives went, I’m starting to figure out this fediverse stuff already!

    • harsh3466@lemmy.ml
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      6 days ago

      The sentiment isn’t dumb. It’s true. The Democrats don’t give a fuck about us plebs. I voted for Harris and absolutely will vote for/choose the lesser evil as long as I’m still able. Doing so does not mean the Dems give any fucks about me.

      Remember when Bernie had real momentum behind him and the Dems sabotaged him because Hillary was determined to have her run at the presidency? If the Democratic party gave a fuck about the voting public they’d have gone whole hog behind Bernie.

      It the Dems cared about normies, they’d be doing more than performative filibusters that accomplish nothing. If the Democratic party cared they’d be throwing up every fucking roadblock they could to actually try and stop that motherfucker Trump and his fucking cronies.

      Are the Dems a better option than the Republicans? Yes. Do the Dems care about us? No. They’re just the less shitty choice.

    • Dessalines@lemmy.ml
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      7 days ago

      Neither is also an option. You don’t need to put up with either manager.

        • bishbosh@lemm.ee
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          7 days ago

          I mean there is the difficult but not acquiescent solution, that coincidentally carries parallels to the real world, of unionizing your work place and using the power of collective bargaining to demand better conditions. This is hard work and takes time and effort, but instead of recognizing that and trying to help, people check out. And those pushing for it are called unrealistic tools of the bad manager and that we demand perfection, while every year the ‘lesser evil’ manager gets a bit more touchy with his subordinates.

          Further in the real world analog of this, the ‘lesser evil’ manager is bombing children, and driving us towards climate catastrophe. Yes democratic politicians are better then republican ones, but that doesn’t negate the point of the meme. They do not give a fuck about you, and they will drive us off the climate cliff, they will bomb more children, they will give more tools to the police state, and they will hire more ICE agents. With such stakes we need to do the hard thing and demand better.

        • Dessalines@lemmy.ml
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          Liberals would sooner imagine the end of existence, than the thousands of other alternatives and types of political action and organizing, other than voting for their genocidal parties.

          Many imperialized peoples in the world rejected liberalism and its controlled opposition parties, and decided to build their own working class parties to oppose capitalist domination… and they freed themselves from imperialism and uplifted millions of people out of poverty in the process.

          Despite being far poorer and less educated than imperial-core liberals, they are much more intelligent, and realize that step 1, is to form their own pro-worker / pro-peasant parties. They don’t eat the shit on a plate given to them like US liberals are happy to do.

            • Dessalines@lemmy.ml
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              6 days ago

              You are literally the one in the right in this pic. Shaming people for wanting to improve the world rather than voting for your status quo genocidal party.

            • Fidel_Cashflow@lemmy.ml
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              7 days ago

              very funny meme to go with, considering that “choosing the slightly less evil option” is in fact not improving anything about society, but instead just watching society get worse, at a slower pace. you are very intelligent!!

        • Toribor@corndog.social
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          7 days ago

          I’ve never realized how young everyone on Lemmy must be until I came across this thread.

          “Just get a different job.” and “Both parties are bad.” are exactly the useless nihilistic asshole attitudes I had about things when I was about half my current age.

          • AllHailTheSheep@sh.itjust.works
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            7 days ago

            lemmy actually tends to skew older than a lot of platforms (ive seen stats for this around just don’t have any on hand). the person I responded to above is actually one of the creators of lemmy. unfortunately, lemmy also skews towards chronically online and white, which means there’s a lot of those opinions floating around.

            • Toribor@corndog.social
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              Yeah, probably an unfair take on my part to chalk it up to age instead of emotional maturity.

              Nihilism is just so unproductive. I used to think that attitudes like that were such a smart and obvious response to the absurd state of the world but it’s just an excuse to not engage with reality or accept personal responsibility.

    • kreskin@lemmy.world
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      Even with Biden exiting late, that was a winnable election and the dems botched it by trying to fit as much evil as they thought they could get away with into the platform-- so they could cash the most checks from AIPAC.

      If Harris had just said two weeks before the general that she thought what was going on was genocide, she’d be president right now and the minimum of campaign funding would have been lost. Sure the far right would never donate to the dems again, but when you look at what their donations cost us all, why would anyone take that money anyway?

      Bringing their priorities into the party was always a massive mistake by DNC leadership.

      And the dems like yourself learned nothing from the loss and keep preaching to others to accept lesser evils. When it comes to crimes against humanity I think you’ll find for the dems that enough of their base says “never again – for any ethnicity” that they should not even try this again unless they absolutely want to lose. Theres barely enough base to even try to win again in any case. We’re past any sort of ‘optimizing for highest $$’ strategizing and just fighting for the party to even exist at all anymore. So maybe take your lesser evil metaphor and fold it till its all sharp corners and do the needful.

    • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml
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      7 days ago

      I, John Brown, am now quite certain, that the crimes of this guilty land will never be purged away, but with blood.

      He did know that already in 1859

  • Contemporarium@lemm.ee
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    7 days ago

    The funniest thing about non Americans is that they think most of us don’t fucking know this. It’s so annoying

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    7 days ago

    Finally someone who speaks the truth, however humans are a lost case, you can’t un-slave mentality without changing the people.

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    6 days ago

    So… I should just lay down and take it? I’m not sure what point is being made.

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    6 days ago

    We need to all vote libertarian, just to see what its like. As it is, we keep going back and forth with half the country hating the gov and each other. I think I speak for many on both sides when I say, we are tired of the red and blue.

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    7 days ago

    Yes, but Americans hating their government is exactly what got us here.

    Doubling down on that sentiment is only going to make things worse.

    You understand that, right?

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        7 days ago

        Well, you expect your hate to create for you a few comrades, but it’ll only make for more hillbillies named Conrad.

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          Cute, but maybe the classist stuff isn’t actually a clever tool.

          You know why they’re called red necks?

    • sudo@programming.dev
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      Lack of criticism of the US government in the first place is what got us here. You can say the GOP is worse all you want but you must admit that the Democrats are massive fuck ups too if you want things to ever get better.

      You can’t keep falling for this notion of “every criticism of the democrats is supporting the GOP”. Its not even an election year for Christ’s sake.

    • Saint_La_Croix_Crosse@midwest.social
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      Hating the government is right and good. The problem is the crushing of the left, the popular front, and the Democrats taking up all space for opposition to the Republicans, while wanting to be “polite Republicans” and maintaining the status quo above all else is what gave opening for hating the government to take this reactionary form.

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    8 days ago

    This “both sides” is bullshit when you are getting a train run on you by the Republicans…

    • MetalMachine@feddit.nl
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      6 days ago

      When it comes to foreign policy and making the rich richer? Absolutely. The only potential difference is on some social issues.

      • lobut@lemmy.ca
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        8 days ago

        Correct, but still not even close to the same thing. More of this “balanced” stuff.

        Anywho on the plus side, he’s getting wrecked in the polls vs AOC who’s looking to take his place though.

      • Empricorn@feddit.nl
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        I’m an Independent. But there’s no “leader” of the Democrats, it’s a big-tent party. Chuck is head of the group of Democratic senators, but he doesn’t dictate things outside of Senate business and we don’t blindly all follow everything he says. That’s the difference between electing public servants and people in a cult.

        EDIT: Downvote all you want, this is a simple fact. You’re allowed to just want to be mad! But I don’t know why people click the “down” button just because they don’t like what was said… Has anyone used actual logic and facts to disprove me? Of course not…

    • Dessalines@lemmy.ml
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      8 days ago

      Interesting.

      Obama dropped an average of 80 bombs per day on the ME and North Africa during his presidency. The number of civilians murdered is impossible to calculate.

      • Nemo's public admirer@lemmy.sdf.org
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        7 days ago

        For a USAmerican(or any other person), their primary concern would be their own safety, right?

        Unless they can form/support a major third party, they are effectively forced to a two-choice system

        • Dessalines@lemmy.ml
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          The USA is not the world, and its citizens should start looking towards the welfare of the people their country murders.

          • Nemo's public admirer@lemmy.sdf.org
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            6 days ago

            What would the steps be for that?

            I’m not USAmerican, so I don’t know much of the base level stuff there. I think they have a green party or so. But are they a good/distinct enough choice?

          • kreskin@lemmy.world
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            7 days ago

            When both choices explicitely lead to mass murder its mandatory for any ethical person to do all they can to make some third outcome happen.

            Voting quietly for what may be slightly less mass murder but certainly is still mass murder is a pathetic and shameful way to chart a course forward. A handful of us have more dignity than that.

          • FrostBlazer@lemm.ee
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            7 days ago

            Choosing not to participate is how you become dominated by one of the parties, possibly the one you like the least. The way to actually be able to participate is by trying to change the system itself. By that I mean changing First Past the Post voting in each state, as this is the means through which other political parties would be able to spring up. Another option is to run for government yourself as an actor for change within one of the major political parties.

            Make no mistake, changing the system is possible. Alaska and Maine have both done it already. Other states can do it too. I think trying alternative voting systems such as ranked robin voting, STAR voting, score voting, or even ranked choice voting would be a major step towards other political parties and to move away from the most the least liked candidates winning elections.

            I’m not sure why this was voted down, real lasting solutions require hard work and organizing to make change. Mind you, changing the system of how we vote alone isn’t the end step, but a starting place for change.

    • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
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      8 days ago

      Are you denying that the Dems are shit? Just because the Reps are worse and currently in power?

      What kind of an argument is that supposed to be?

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        What are you talking about the initial argument is completely insane to be begin with. I think Biden came into office and reduce child poverty or hunger or something by half as his first action.

        We’re gonna compare that to Trump destroying the economy, removing due process, open up national parks to logging, letting DOGE cut departments with corruption, invading other countries?

        • BrainInABox@lemmy.ml
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          8 days ago

          Biden gleefully engaged in one of the worst genocides of the era. He should be in a cell in the Hague.

          • kreskin@lemmy.world
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            100% agreed. I’m forgetting my history though, what did they used to do with genociders and war criminals? Something about a rope or a wall.

            And its a little past time that the entire Democratic party acknowledge that what Biden did was genocide, and what Harris was proposing was continuing with it.

            Dems shouldnt measure ourselves by what republicans do, if they ever want to win an election again.

          • lobut@lemmy.ca
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            I agree I think it’s fucking horrible and I think Chuck Schumer and everyone on any side of the political aisle that upheld this should be in a jail cell too.

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          Lol, while technically true there’s a big picture you’re missing… The start of his presidency did co-incide with some things like the child tax credit etc. that did drop the official measurement to a historic low of 5.2% in 2021, but was then quickly repealed by bipartisan support in Congress causing it to skyrocket to 12.4% in 2022.

          In the US the child poverty rate had been slowly, but steadily, declining since the peak of the great recession… Until the Biden presidency circa ~2022 at which point it skyrocketed by the end of his presidency reaching ~2012 levels.

          While technically true that “Biden came into office and reduce[d] child poverty [sic] by half as his first action.” It ignores that immediately afterwards he did “destroy the economy”. Don’t get me started on ‘removing due process, open up national parks, cutting departments with corruption, invading other countries’ because also yes!

          Not to say Trump is better (we can all agree fuck that guy and all his cronies), but Jim Crow Joe is/was also evil, you’ve just been tricked into thinking otherwise…

          • lobut@lemmy.ca
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            Thanks for replying, I just recalled this:

            https://www.npr.org/2022/01/27/1075299510/the-expanded-child-tax-credit-briefly-slashed-child-poverty-heres-what-else-it-d

            Now we can say he failed but I can’t say that specific act is evil. Palestine on the other hand … ☠️

            Like, I get your viewpoints and you guys think I’m trying to bury any negative viewpoints of the democratic party or that I’m brainwashed. Which is funny to me because I hate the establishment Dems. I just think posts saying both suck and attacking the Dems aren’t helpful because they currently have no power. The other party is causing a lot of damage and there seems to be no stopping them so kicking the feckless Dems when they’re down seems weird to me.

            I also think the democratic party needs to be ousted by progressive candidates that have a good vision for the future. I’m not gonna lie though I don’t see it happening. The establishment Dems aren’t gonna bow down. Also, I see so many protests happening and although AOC and Bernie have made the news I don’t think I see the Dem leadership taking advantage of this and putting up a solid front either, like wtf is going on? I’m not sure it’s the coverage but it really seems like they’re lost.

            • SinAdjetivos@beehaw.org
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              7 days ago

              The difference is the viewpoint:

              attacking the Dems aren’t helpful because they currently have no power. The other party is causing a lot of damage and there seems to be no stopping them

              If you buy into the underlying premises of how a liberal democracy functions (liberal used here as a technical term, not as a perjorative) then the only ones who have the power to stop the other party is the Dems and they actively choose not to. They’re neither down, nor out they’re doing their job of controlled opposition exactly as they are supposed to.

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                I still don’t like saying how they’re both the same because I fundamentally don’t believe that to my core (ie if they had all three branches we wouldn’t be talking about all this current mayhem).

                However, I think I understand your point and I agree with it.

                So thanks again!

                • SinAdjetivos@beehaw.org
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                  They aren’t the same, one’s a sword and one’s a shield. The shield can’t effectively stab, but the sword can’t either if it’s forced to parry instead.

                  I engaged because it seemed like there was agreement, just miscommunication. Glad I was able to help cut through it :D. Appreciate you!

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          What are you talking about the initial argument is completely insane to be begin with. I think Biden came into office and reduce child poverty or hunger or something by half as his first action.

          Are you having a stroke? I don’t follow your point and/or syntax.

          We’re gonna compare that to Trump destroying the economy, removing due process, open up national parks to logging, letting DOGE cut departments with corruption, invading other countries?

          What do you want from me? Obviously we agree that Trump is worse than the Dems.

          That still doesn’t make the Dems “not bad”.

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              Nobody said the Dems were perfect OR not bad through the chain.

              Never claimed that someone claimed that. Again: how is the original post wrong?

              Two parties in a two party system is no case of “apples and oranges”. That’s as close to a fair comparison as you’re gonna get.

              Ghonorrea and pancreatic cancer are two things I don’t want to have. Is this “false equivalency” as well?

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                Two parties in a two party system is no case of “apples and oranges”. That’s as close to a fair comuarison as yo’'re gonna get

                stroke much?


                seriously, this isn’t a “fair comparison” because it doesn’t address any sort of nuance nor is it supposed to. It’s supposed to make people go: “yeah the dems suck too” rather than understand anything about what’s going on.

                If you claim to be on the same page then whatever, we can just agree on our core points leave it at that.

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                  stroke much?

                  I guess you never make typos, then. Huh? /s

                  seriously, this isn’t a “fair comparison” because it doesn’t address any sort of nuance nor is it supposed to.

                  I’m sorry that I slandered ghonorrea by comparing it to pancreatic cancer. Clearly I forgot the nUaNcE between these two horrible sicknesses. /s

                  Wait. How can there be any “nuance” if you can’t compare the two parties? Is a comparison of apples with oranges flawed because of the “nuance”?

                  It’s supposed to make people go: “yeah the dems suck too” rather than understand anything about what’s going on.

                  That’s what you think the intent is. I think that it’s supposed to state that the US democratic system is not suitable for a fair and equitable world and the Dems are not the solution of the mess the US is in.

                  You can have your own interpretation but don’t assume that this was OP’s intent.

    • ByteJunk@lemmy.world
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      You really don’t get it, huh?

      People heard that shit last time, and they voted democrat, and Biden won. And ABSOLUTELY NOTHING changed.

      At the end of the day, the rich got richer and the poor got poorer, just like they did with trump, and with Obama, and with every single president who has taken office in god knows how many decades.

      And still you’re here yapping “oh noes the horrors, vote Dems”.

      Bro, the Dems aren’t LISTENING! Get a Bernie up there, or an AOC, or anyone that the people actually believe will do anything other than feeding the same interests they have been feeding.

      And if you’re too thick to realize that, at least you’re not alone, the whole DNC is right there with you.

    • lobut@lemmy.ca
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      8 days ago

      I can’t deal with US politics right now and this thread.

      I’m fucking Canadian and people upvoting this both sides nonsense is getting my blood boiling.

      I thought this enlightened centrist shit was over with but people are bringing it up like they’re some next-level IQ genius. When in reality they’re trying their to push people to the right (whether they understand it or not).

      • Dessalines@lemmy.ml
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        7 days ago

        When is your country going to return the land they stole to its indigenous peoples? When is the US democratic party going to stop supporting the genocide of Palestine?

        If its people not voting for the US democratic party, rather than either of the above issues that “gets your blood boiling”, you might need to re-evaluate which side of the white supremacist line you’re on.

      • kreskin@lemmy.world
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        I’m fucking Canadian

        So you probably dont even understand the full context of what you’re talking about.

        Arent there other countries political websites you can go bother people on? Try Australia, your fellow commonwealth country (sorry australians). Theres plenty of other places to be a touriust with strong opinions about other peoples governments.

      • meowMix2525@lemm.ee
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        8 days ago

        whether they understand it or not

        If such a thing can be done without understanding, how do you know that you aren’t the one who has been pushed to the right and that you aren’t doing the work of dragging others along with you?

        • Dessalines@lemmy.ml
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          8 days ago

          ICE and deportations grew massively during Obama’s presidency.

          By the numbers: Under the Obama administration, total ICE deportations were above 385,000 each year in fiscal years 2009-2011, and hit a high of 409,849 in fiscal 2012. The numbers dropped to below 250,000 in fiscal years 2015 and 2016.

          Source

            • Samsuma@lemmy.ml
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              7 days ago

              When it involves citizens, it’s a travesty. When, it’s literally everyone else (the overwhelming fucking majority affected by ICE deportations), it’s acceptable collateral, bonus brownie points when it’s done by the Blue team.

              Get a grip.

                • Samsuma@lemmy.ml
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                  Did you already forget that it was you that dismissed the deportation statistics posted above during one of Team Blue’s occupation with “ok but this time it’s Team Red and it involves our citizens! This is worse”? So when the Blues do it without citizens, somehow that’s a “fine price to pay”? Is it perhaps, bipartisan unity we’re witnessing? No, it couldn’t be!

                  Do you understand the underlying racism with that sentiment, and that for as long as you don’t, that you’ll find it difficult to get a grip with reality?

            • BrainInABox@lemmy.ml
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              7 days ago

              You don’t realise it, but people like you would vote for hitler or claim hitler was the same as other parties.

              Lol, what a fucking stupid insult “oh, you oppose genocide? Well guess what, in my imagination, you vote for Hitler!”

              Meanwhile, in the actual real world, you support actual genocide.

              I don’t recall the democrats supporting rapists… Or threatening others.

              Ignoring the accusations against Biden himself, systemic rape is a huge part of the genocide that the Democrats support.

              You’ve literally got Trump now trying to become third term president to avoid jail. It’s a dictatorship mate

              K, you were already committing genocide, I don’t really care about your precious standards and norms.

                • BrainInABox@lemmy.ml
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                  7 days ago

                  You’re targeting 1 issue specifically

                  That one issue: the wholesale extermination of an entire country.

                  My point is, Trump is actually behaving eeringly similar to Hitler at times.

                  So were the democrats, when they committed genocide.

                  Trump is literally asking Israel to clear out so he can steal the land for trump hotels

                  Israel was already clearing out the land, with the full support of the Democrats, you only care when it’s Trump doing it though.

                  They’re NOTHING alike.

                  They’re both genocidal psychopaths

                  Trump is literally committing crimes against US people, and tried to deport LEGAL citizens

                  Sorry, I forgot that blueMAGA people like you are hardcore fascists who think only Americans are human.

                  Now, it was discovered he deported people who shouldn’t have been, and the supreme court can’t get them back.

                  That’s not really comparable to murdering hundreds of thousands of people who shouldn’t have been. Oh sorry, I forgot, only Americans are people.

                  You’re so focused on the 1 issue

                  Again, that one issue: the mass slaughter of an entire people.

                  and the good things they’ve done

                  “At least Hitler made the trains run on time”

                  that you’re ignoring the 50000 other ones Trump is doing

                  No, that’s you projecting. You’re the one who ignores the evil one side does.

                  Tim walz was literally bragging about feeding school kids.

                  Tim Walz proclaimed that the expansion of Israel was an “absolute fundamental necessity”, actively supporting the murder of tens of thousands of school kids.

                  Trump did nothing but talk about himself and “crooked hilary”, “sleepy joe”, etc

                  “I can accept genocide, but I draw the line at being rude”.

                  Seriously listen to yourself, you’re more upset by Trump bragging than you are about mass graves full of mutilated civilians and mass rape camps. What is wrong with you!

    • ☂️-@lemmy.ml
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      8 days ago

      i live somewhere with mandatory voting, and have looked into places with ranked choice. it doesnt do much.

      the problem is capitalism and the rich’s interests being paid for instead of ours. not how the ballots are made or counted.

    • Dessalines@lemmy.ml
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      8 days ago

      Alternative voting systems have in practice been proven useless, whether in South Korea, Japan, Australia, and many other capitalist dictatorship countries that use it. It might make bribery a bit more expensive, since there are more candidates to buy off, and more political advertising necessary, but it hasn’t fixed anything.

      The root problem is capital standing above political power. And that can’t be undone using it’s own platform.

      • Sibshops@lemm.ee
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        8 days ago

        How are you measuring useless?

        Australia has RCV and has more than 2 active political parties.

        • Dessalines@lemmy.ml
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          RCV hasn’t stopped right wing governments from coming to power, nor returned lands to indigenous Australians, nor done anything to reverse concentration of wealth or media ownership.

          • FrostBlazer@lemm.ee
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            RCV specifically is worse than say Ranked Robin voting, STAR voting, or score voting which all would make the least liked candidate winning less likely compared to RCV or FPTP.

            Most countries stopped at RCV, but Ranked Robin or STAR would be a big upgrade.

            Fixing the voting system is just one of the key things that needs to happen though. Education desperately needs reforms. Our media desperately needs reforms such as the Fairness Doctrine coming back and being expanded to all media and social media influencers/podcasters as well.

          • Sibshops@lemm.ee
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            8 days ago

            True, it’s just a voting system. It can’t do those things unless people vote for those things to happen.

            The thing RCV does do is break us out of the control of a 2-party government. So we could have a communist party with RCV, but can’t in our current system.

            • Dessalines@lemmy.ml
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              You can’t achieve a democracy through voting, it always results in an oligarchy. The wealthy / economically dominant classes are the only ones who have enough money / prestige to finance their campaigns and win the popularity contest. It makes any political system based on elections nothing more than political theatre.

              This is basic stuff even the ancient greeks knew, and communists learned through trial and error, yet liberals in the 21st century can’t wrap their heads around it.

  • mstrk@lemmy.world
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    Honestly, I read this thread and can’t comprehend how a civilization as advanced as the United States of America thinks that defending a binary choice of democracy is a good thing to do… It’s impossible to represent a country with a few million people like that, imagine ~300M. Anyway, keep going at each other’s throats for your party color… smh.

          • Bloomcole@lemmy.world
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            “indentured servitude” is the euphemism they use.
            Obviously the bestest democracy in the history of the entire universe doesn’t have slavery.

            • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              I don’t blame you, I was educated that it abolished slavery. But there’s a very big “except”. It was partially added to help sway the Confederate states to make them happy that they can keep slaves if they find enough things to arrest them for.

              It’s part of why Jim Crow laws happened. And it’s exactly why America has the highest amount of people in jail than any other nation. Slaves are cheap labor.