Lemmy libs still think that the EU is going to step up and provide military support to Ukraine in any meaningful way and believe they’re in opposition to US and Russia and will stand up for what is right and against “imperial aggression”. Meanwhile the EU members are awarding right wing María Corina Machado a peace price in Oslo who is calling for the US to escalate a war in Venezuela.
What about EU threats to drop trillions in bonds if US support for Ukraine ends?
They can threaten all they want publicly, they won’t do it. Then they have no leverage and their only other alternative is to divert all their spending into military defense and the Europeans way of life ends. The Russian threat isn’t as big as the defense companies are claiming to manufacture consent for a profitable war.
They’d accelerate their demotion from imperial vassals to periphery countries. That’s it.
I think you’re ignoring the damage that would do to the US bond market?
The US empire is already dying, but it still has hard power. Europe has very little hard power and very little soft power, and as such their relevance on the world stage is vanishing. Cutting their ties with the US like that would result in essentially them getting rid of their support system.
Weird post
Weird replie
Checks instance
Ah…
Russia’s 3 day operation continues to amaze me, they truly suck at war like their generals are worse than a 14 year old total war gamer. Everyday it’s ‘russia gonan win real soon totes promise!’ and yet they continue to stall out over 55 year old blokes with out of date war gear. Pathetic truly, as sad as the Yankees wasting 20 years in the desert only to be defeated by goat herders lmao. These imperialist powers sure know how to waste their young men!
The “3 day war” idea was not an official millitary or government statement, Lukashenko and an RT editor both said it and the west has been using it as a way to obscure the fact that Russia has been steadily achieving its actually stated goals. I know you’ve read Lenin, have you read Imperialism, the Current Highest Stage of Capitalism? The Russian Federation is governed by nationalists, not finance capital, and Russia doesn’t have a stake in the global financial monopoly. It’s the west that has that. Russia doesn’t really meet the Marxist understanding of imperialism, nor is it acting how we would expect imperialist powers to act.
Would you be willing to put money on the outcome of this war?
Well, I am a gambling man, how much we talking? Cos a penny bet reckons it’s a Russian loss but would I go all in? Not yet…
Before you start making bets, what do you count as a Russian victory? It’s almost certainly going to end favorably to Russia, so I’m not sure why you’d take this bet.
Initial goal was to denazify and demilitarise Ukraine and also to ‘protect the people of Luhansk and Donetsk’ right? So anything short of that is sort of a loss. I don’t think Putin can get all of that he’s going to have to compromise.
Russia wants the four oblasts, which they have been accelerating their advance in in the last few months. Cheap and deadly FPV drones force slow movement in general, but in the last few months strings of Kiev-held strongholds are falling left and right. Ukraine can’t field the war much longer either, and the war is becoming increasingly unpopular. What’s likely is that the four oblasts go to Russia, Kiev is forced into NATO neutrality, and their millitary is severely crippled. That’s absolutely a Russian victory.
Which of these do you think Russia will have to compromise on, and why would you consider the compromise to be a loss?
A thousand bucks.
Remind me, which international alliance was putting its full military and financial support behind these “goat herders” during the failed US occupation?
Uhh did you mistake me? Fuck imperialism. American, Russian, Chinese, European, I don’t care.
China and Russia are not imperialist, they are closer to global south countries in their position with respect to imperialism as a global phenomenon. In order to fight the tendency for the rate of profit to fall, capital either seeks new markets, ie new inventions to flood with capital or geographically new markets, or it seeks to establish monopoly. The former allows for greater profits in absolute terms, the latter temporarily raises the rate of profit. The natural consequence is imperialism, where this is combined by having financial capital dominate the global south, super-exploiting labor for super-profits, and via unequal exchange, where technology and tech development is kept in the global north and thus monopoly prices are charged.
This is also why south-south trade is the path to escape underdevelopment, and is why China in particular has been a progressive force for the global south, as they don’t withold tech knowledge but instead share it through cooperation and trade. China also doesn’t charge the same monopoly prices for tech, which is why global south countries are seeing huge electrification, expansions in EVs, etc.
The west used to have a monopoly on cutting edge tech, they witheld the technology used for creating firearms from African countries for hundreds of years while selectively trading firearms in limited quantities for huge amounts of slaves, as an example. The west forces the global south to rely on them, and forces them into remaining at lower levels of industrial development and refinement. It’s also why countries like the Sahel States are working towards cutting unrefined gold exports and upping refined gold exports, ie moving from unfinished raw materials into more finished goods or ancillary materials, and why porkie is terrified of them.
It isn’t that goods further along in the commodity production process have more valuable labor time at the higher end, it’s that the upper end of the production chain is easier to keep a tech and skill monopoly on. This is what liberals mean by “higher value add” industries, made more naked through Marxist analysis.
America didn’t lose that many lives in AfPak. I believe for years there was just one reported casualty, and that too in friendly fire.
They still lost.
By leaving Ukraine right? Thats the only logical conclusion I can think of.
Edit: holy hot heck did my block list just grow today.
If Russia seems to be acting illogically to you, perhaps the problem isn’t with Russia but with your understanding of this war and Russia’s actual goals.
calling what goes on inside that head of yours thinking is very generous
my god yeah i knew there were a lot of tankies here but damn
"Tankies* meaning in this case: people who understand the cause and nature of the conflict und would like for it to stop asap
Edit: holy hot heck did my block list just grow today.
enjoy your echo chamber
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Who’s winning the war?
The good guys.
No? Why would Russia stop when it’s winning?
bit of a stretch to characterize this as winning. Russia faced off with a much weaker opponent and has been spinning its tires for years now. the russian economy is in shambles. the most effective russian play this entire war was putting trump back in the white house, but that fucker will be dead before midterms. look at his puffy face and purple hands. he is a walking corpse
This is Qanon tier nonsense
Russia has been gradually taking more and more land and strategic footholds. This war is incredibly brutal, and the massive rise in FPV drones that are cheap and deadly forces slow movements, almost like a return to World War I style trench warfare. The Russian economy is still holding on strong, Europe is importing tons of gas indirectly from Russia through alternate channels, and Russia has spent the last decade trying to rely less on unreliable western trade partners. Further, there’s no real evidence of Russia putting Trump in the White House, nor would Ukraine suddenly be winning had Harris been in office.
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the evidence that russia influenced the election is pervasive.
I could name a hundred things that are both pervasive and false. Previously:
- IT Pro: Cambridge Analytica models were exaggerated and ineffective, [UK Information Commissioner’s Office] claims
- Wall Street Journal: Mueller Doesn’t Find Trump Campaign Conspired With Russia
- Jacobin: Democrats and Mainstream Media Were the Real Kremlin Assets
- Washington Post: FEC fines DNC, Clinton for violating rules in funding Steele dossier
- Washington Post: Russian trolls on Twitter had little influence on 2016 voters
- Jacobin: It Turns Out Hillary Clinton, Not Russian Bots, Lost the 2016 Election
- Matt Taibbi: Move Over, Jayson Blair: Meet Hamilton 68, the New King of Media Fraud The Twitter Files reveal that one of the most common news sources of the Trump era was a scam, making ordinary American political conversations look like Russian spywork
- Jacobin: Why the Twitter Files Are in Fact a Big Deal On the Left, there’s been a temptation to dismiss the revelations about Twitter’s internal censorship system that have emerged from the so-called Twitter Files project. But that would be a mistake: the news is important and the details are alarming.
- MSNBC Repeats Hamilton 68 Lies 279 Times in 11 Minutes
- Matt Taibbi: CIA “Cooked The Intelligence” To Hide That Russia Favored Clinton, Not Trump In 2016
- Aaron Maté: Under Trump, the CIA is still covering up its Russiagate fraud
- Matt Taibbi: Note on New Trump-Russia Disclosures Thanks to explosive new document releases, the Russiagate hoax is now exposed, commencing a new era that will be about accountability for the guilty
- Matt Taibbi: No Doubt Left: Russiagate Was a Cover-Up
- Chris Hedges: Why Russiagate Won’t Go Away The cynical con the Democratic Party and the F.B.I. carried out to falsely portray Donald Trump as a puppet of the Kremlin worked, and continues to work, because it is what those who detest Trump want to believe.
i wouldn’t be too surprised to learn that you yourself are a russian bot
These kinds of accusations get removed.
wouldn’t be too surprised to learn that you yourself are a russian bot, so uncritically do you spout moscow propaganda.
Yeah, no shit the “evidence is pervasive” when your standard of evidence for declaring someone a Russian agent is “they disagree with me”
You are a fascist, you are a Nazi ranting about Judeo-Bolshevick conspiracies, you are a McCarthyist ranting about communist subversion of our precious bodily fluids.
There’s no evidence that the collapse in Ukrainian defenses will slow down, rather it seems like it will accelerate as strongholds fall and the war becomes increasingly unpopular. Russia isn’t trying to take all of Ukraine, just the four oblasts, the Economist is trying to frame it as total and complete conquest of Ukraine. When compared to Russia’s actual objectives, Russia is advancing steadily.
Further, Russia does not “throw meat” at the war. Russians are largely supportive of Putin right now because he’s doing a balancing act between appeasing the Russian capitalist class and the rising socialist movements in the public. Russia’s economy is holding strong, the sheer fact that sanctions are still coming out means they haven’t been effective thus far. I belong to the Marxist school of economics, which recognizes actual production over the largely financial western economies.
Your final accusation that I’m a bot for not agreeing with you is just the cherry on top. You give clear examples of liberals manipulating data like the economist graph and using percentages of total Ukrainian territory and not the Donbass region, because when we measure Russia by its ability to achieve its actual goals its clear that its rapidly advancing towards them. You’re quite literally uncritically spouting liberal, western propaganda that falls apart at the slightest prodding.
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Incredible homophobia from you. Counteract my points with your own, not mask-off homophobia. Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds.
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Ableism too, amazing. Mask-off.
“Hehehe CUM hehe people who don’t support the Ukranian nazi government are GAY for a RUSSIAN man and GAY is BAD and SHAMEFUL huehuehue”
Behold: the liberal ally
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Boring chan dweller shit, nurse your bruised little ego elsewhere
I don’t understand what you think is logical about that
Because Russia has no reason to be invading neighbouring countries?
Idk just a thought. Not sure why we reward the aggressors. Remember that time the Russian backed separatists who totally weren’t just Russian military shot down that airliner?
Because Russia has no reason to be invading neighbouring countries?
- Reuters, 2014: Leaked audio reveals embarrassing U.S. exchange on Ukraine, EU
- Leaked recording between Nuland and Pyatt: audio | transcript
- Counterpunch, 2014: US Imperialism and the Ukraine Coup
- BBC, 2014: Ukraine underplays role of far right in conflict
- Human Rights Watch, 2014: Ukraine: Unguided Rockets Killing Civilians
- Consortium News, 2015: The Mess That Nuland Made Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland engineered Ukraine’s regime change without weighing the likely consequences.
- The Hill, 2017: The reality of neo-Nazis in Ukraine is far from Kremlin propaganda
- The Guardian, 2017: ‘I want to bring up a warrior’: Ukraine’s far-right children’s camp – video
- WaPo, 2018: The war in Ukraine is more devastating than you know
- Reuters, 2018: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem
- The Nation, 2019: Neo-Nazis and the Far Right Are On the March in Ukraine
- openDemocracy, 2019: Why Ukraine’s new language law will have long-term consequences
- Al Jazeera, 2022: Why did Ukraine suspend 11 ‘pro-Russia’ parties?
- Jacobin, 2022: A US-Backed, Far Right–Led Revolution in Ukraine Helped Bring Us to the Brink of War
- Consortium News, 2023: The West’s Sabotage of Peace in Ukraine Former Israeli Prime Minister Bennett’s recent comments about getting his mediation efforts squashed in the early days of the war adds more to the growing pile of evidence that Western powers are intent on regime change in Russia.
- Internationalist 360°, 2022–2024: History of Fascism in Ukraine: Part I, Part II, Part III, Part IV
- NYT, 2024: U.N. Court to Rule on Whether Ukraine Committed Genocide
NATO expansion:
- George Washington Univ., 2017: NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev Heard Declassified documents show security assurances against NATO expansion to Soviet leaders from Baker, Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major, and Woerner
- Orinoco Tribune, 2022: Former German Chancellor Merkel Admits that Minsk Peace Agreements Were Part of Scheme for Ukraine to Buy Time to Prepare for War With Russia
- Al Mayadeen, 2023: Zelensky admits he never intended to implement Minsk agreements
- Jeffrey Sachs, 2023: The War in Ukraine Was Provoked—and Why That Matters to Achieve Peace
- Jeffrey Sachs, 2023: NATO Chief Admits NATO Expansion Was Key to Russian Invasion of Ukraine
NATO in general:- The Intercept, 2021: Meet NATO, the Dangerous “Defensive” Alliance Trying to Run the World
- CounterPunch, 2022: NATO is Not a Defensive Alliance
- Noam Chomsky, 2023: NATO “most violent, aggressive alliance in the world”
- Thomas Fazi, 2024: NATO: 75 years of war, unprovoked aggressions and state-sponsored terrorism
- Gabriel Rockhill, 2020: The U.S. Did Not Defeat Fascism in WWII, It Discretely Internationalized It
Especially with new leadership.
Zelensky was a comedian groomed by oligarchs. He played a president on TV and then ran for president on TV. This was planned out in advance. Zelensky has never been in control because he was an actor in way over his head, beholden to US comprador oligarchs, and his life is openly threatened by high-level Banderite fascists should he get out of line. And he’s quite wealthy now, an oligarch in his own right. He’s in no way a “servant of the people;” that’s an act played by an actor.
I am genuinely shocked at liberals inability to understand the difference between is and ought
Expand on this plz
I suspect that one would have better luck explaining this to a squirrel on meth.
Maybe she’ll add this to her list, “Reviews of my account.”
🤣
No reason
Oh, of course. This all just happened for no reason, contravening all laws of cause and effect. History began in February 2022.
Reward the aggressor
Who’s rewarding anyone? They’ve won the war all by themselves. This is how war works, not some kindergarten where you can put countries in timeout. To think that acknowledging objective reality is somehow “rewarding” anyone is some real “punish the unbelievers” type shit.
Real life is not marvel comic book that the “good guys” wins over the “bad guys”.
Russia is winning and the logical conclusion is definitely not giving up at the finishing line and turn back. Do you know what logical means?
It’s not a comic book, it’s international relations. You know what would help russias relations? Getting the fuck out of Ukraine.
The logical conclusion is Russia fucks off and leaves other countries alone.
you keep using this word ‘logical’ I don’t think it means what you think it means
“everyone is twelve” theory of politics continues to be validated, because that is a take a 12 year old would have
Please expand on what you mean by this
👍
Reality will not follow your delusions.
Oh so we’re okay with Russia being a bully?
Please, for the love of God, learn the difference between is and ought
Obviously I need you to expand in more detail here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Is–ought_problem
Russia is doing what it’s doing, regardless of what you, BiaB, or anyone else thinks it ought to be doing.
It doesn’t matter if Russia is a bully or not. Marching off of Ukraine is not a logical conclusion, it will not happen.
Tell me why it isn’t logical
Jesus Christ I swear Westerners are fed through a tube.
Go on
Are you literally 12?
Because Russia is winning and has no reason to stop. Whether or not anyone is “okay” with Russia winning makes no difference on what the logical conclusion is, which is eventual Russian victory, as Russia is winning and Ukraine is losing even with NATO support. Russia stopping while they are ahead and the war is coming to a close is the least logical conclusion.
If China had stepped in to stop Israel’s genocide, we would be having this exact conversation about China.
No it wouldn’t. Don’t be an idiot.
Yes we would, and your dumbass would be screaming about it at the top of your lungs because reddit told you.
Look at how you’re approaching the Ukraine war. You’ve shown that you know nothing about what was occuring pre-Feb 2022 and are adamant that everyone else that’s trying to tell you about it in good faith is a Russian asset. To you, history started on Feb 2022; and anyone that tries to tell you otherwise for the sake of “nuance” and “context” and other frilly fuckass bullshit is a Russian asset personally getting paid by Putin himself.
Not only do you know absolutely nothing, but you have zero intention to critically engage others because of your arrogance. You won’t learn a single thing and you are adamant about not learning a single thing. That kind of behavior will absolutely not disappear in a hypothetical situation where China directly intervenes to end the genocide.
Not only do you know absolutely nothing
Knowing nothing would an improvement, but instead she knows things that just ain’t so.
Right. Little green men never happened. Gotcha.
We would absolutely be hearing rhetoric about “Antisemetic Chinese imperialism” blasted at us from every angle, quit being willfully naive.
Here we go again westerpropaganda vs russian propaganda.
another day, another banger
Symping for autocrats are we? How very Marxist-Leninist Edit: * /s *
Reporting on what Putin has said about the state of the war is not “simping” for anyone, nor is Marxism-Leninism about “simping” for anyone.
Cowbee. I appreciate some of your takes on Marxism, but disagree frequently with your frame of reference on state power in the global field.
I view the war with Ukraine as one of Russo imperialism in response to Western imperialism. Indeed the USSR itself had many imperialist tendencies under a unified Asiatic / Slavic Soviet even as did Western and Asian counterparts post WW2
The irony being I am more allied to Trotsky or Luxemburg’s take. Which no doubt wouldn’t receive fair purchase in ML group. Forgive me for not directly referencing War and International - as it meanders but hits many themes relevant to Russia/Ukraine conflict
That being said to summarize my view: wars of conquest as a tool for furthering state capital / geopolitical interests shouldn’t be supported by Marxists, and posting the rationalization of an autocrat reads as support to me.
If Russia was actually imperialist and the Russo-Ukrainian war an inter-imperialist conflict, then I’d agree with you, but Russia isn’t imperialist (and certainly not the USSR). In the current era, the US Empire is the hegemon, and its vassals the beneficiaries of imperialism. Russia is governed by nationalists who do not have a stake in the global imperialist system, and as such are forced into south-south trade and south-south alliances. Further, there is a rising communist movement within Russia that is growing year over year that stands to return Russia to socialism.
Ukraine is used somewhat similarly as how Israel is used by the US Empire; as millitary bases. The far-right Banderites in Kiev have power currently, and are doing their job of de-communization. The Donbass region seceded, and the ensuing war between Donetsk/Luhansk and Kiev is what is sparking Russian intervention. Russia is not doing this in pursuit of new neocolonies to exploit, nor does it have any. Russia lacks the financial capital as well as a spot in the global financial monopoly by which imperialism functions that the west has.
A NATO victory over Russia would result in ethnic cleansing in the Donbass region, serious destabilization in a significant anti-US force, and a strong ally for socialist countries and anyone trying to break away from the IMF.
54·2 days agoFurther, there is a rising communist movement within Russia that is growing year over year that stands to return Russia to socialism.
And, what? What difference does it make? France had a decent communist movement, right? They were still imperialists.
Russia doesn’t have a stake in the world imperialist system, France does and has for centuries. If France were to lose in a war against the global south, there would be a huge blow to their continued domination and subjugation of African countries. The fact that Russia has a rising communist movement is just a bonus tacked onto the end, it isn’t an indication of the country being imperialist or not. In fact, the nationalists in charge of Russia are caught between needing to appease the public yearning more and more for socialism and their own interests in perpetuating their capitalist system.
Does that make sense?
Cowbee, I disagree almost entirely with what you posted. But with respect for you clearly articulating your position I will share my response.
To your “But Russia is not imperialist” , please reflect on the following and to what extent you must stretch a rationalization:
First and Second Chechen Wars (1994, 2000) Puppet Leader in Belarus, Alexander Lukashenko (1996) Puppet leader in Ukraine Victor Yanukovych (2010) Georgian War (2008) Annexation of Crimea (2014) Role in Syria conflict (2000 onwards) Role in African dictatorships in Burma Faso and Niger (2010s- present)
… global south / US bad too / old Soviet vassal states must kneel ect… I get it. But the above conflicts are evidence of state capitalism exerting itself militarily for geopolitical and economic aims
I doubt this will influence you much as you are pretty invested in your world view. But from my vantage point and reading of theory (likely some overlap if you are ML) - you are wrong *respectfully
Comrade cfgaussian already answered perfectly here. Essentially, you mix in defensive wars with allyships with other countries, and claim the defensive wars are for imperialism and the allyships “puppetry.” The Sahel States are progressive, and are allied with Russia in their national liberation from France and western imperialism.
I am a Marxist-Leninist, yes. Imperialism needs to be analyzed primarily by the definition of imperialism Lenin gives, not on whether or not a country interacts with others. In most of these examples, such as the Sahel States, Russia is working against imperialism.
Imperialism is the monopoly stage of capitalism by which finance capital and world monopoly are dominant. Russia does not have this. Russia is currently under the control of nationalists, not finance capital, and it is the west that has that global financial monopoly.
Your error is in both erasing Lenin’s analysis of imperialism and viewing any kind of interaction Russia has as inherently imperialist working backwards from there. To use your rhetoric, I suggest you reflect first on what imperialism is, why we define it as such and how it operates, and consider why Marxist-Leninists therefore have the understanding of the Russian Federation that we do.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/index.htm#ch10
Imperialism is defined as the monopoly stage of finance capital.
Russian economy is dominated by the state and oligarchs, not by independent finance capital. It’s territorial expansion while being an regional historical imperialist action is defensive and self limiting and driven mostly by nationalism and security concerns.
Your list provides critical empirical evidence for a dialectical analysis but requires contextualization to avoid oversimplification. See response from comrade @[email protected]
😂 how’s that 3 day special military operation going.
The plan never was ‘3 days’, that was an estimate that came from U.S General Mark Milley.
Then why did they state that at the beginning?
They didn’t
Lukashenko and the editor of RT said it, not the Russian government nor millitary.
I guess a broken clock is right twice a day eh?
