Yes, both the USSR and PRC are typical examples of socialism. Public ownership is the principle aspect of both the former USSR’s economy and the PRC’s economy, same with Cuba, Vietnam, etc. Not sure what you’re getting at.
Yes, both the USSR and PRC are typical examples of socialism
Both USSR and PRC are prime examples of bog-standard totalitarian dictatorships. I have no clue where you’re getting the “socialism” bits from. The fact that they said they are? Do you also believe that North Korea is a Democracy, because it’s in their name?
Public ownership is the principle aspect of both the former USSR’s economy and the PRC’s economy
There’s no public ownership in either. In USSR it was “friends of friends” (the people who we now call the Oligarchs) and in PRC you have a “dictator-approved capitalism” with companies being privately owned.
I’ll admit that I don’t know enough about Cuba or Vietnam to discuss them.
Democracy in the former USSR and modern PRC is solidly proletarian in character. In the USSR, they practiced soviet democracy, which was a form of council based democracy that laddered all the way up to the Politburo. It was through this method, along with the economy being publicly owned and planned, that led to immense leaps in quality of life. Life expectancy doubled, literacy rates tripled, women took huge steps into government positions, education was free and high quality as well as healthcare, working hours shortened, and inequality fell dramatically. There were privledges being high up in government, but not in any way comparable to those under the Tsarist system or under capitalism today.
As for the PRC, public ownership is the principle aspect of its economy. Socialism is not the absence of private property in total, but one where the working class is in control and the large firms and key industries are dominated by public ownership. China’s socialist market economy is permeated with strong democracy as well, with higher ratings than western countries:
The DPRK is democratic, but not because of the name. It’s because they have approval based voting, worker councils, and the working class is in charge. They are currently run by a coalition of 3 parties, the socialist WPK, as well as a social democratic party and a religious party. Cuba is about halfway between the soviet model and chinese model, and Vietnam is closer to the Chinese model of economy. Both are socialist and both are democratic.
None of these countries are perfect wonderlands, but they are all socialist and all democratic. I don’t know what you think socialism looks like, it sounds like it’s just whatever unachievable utopia exists in your head and is free from the sins associated with actually existing in real life.
The large majority of communists hold similar views, especially considering everything I said was factually true. Communists do exist, that shouldn’t be “incredible” to you. I am from the US Empire, yes, I do org work, and have spoken with people from former and existing socialist states.
Not really sure what you’re trying to do, mockery doesn’t invalidate any of the points I’ve made or the sources I bring up, it just gives me the opportunity for others to see that anti-communists don’t really have any points of their own to bring to the table.
You being from the US makes a lot of sense considering how absolutely clueless you are to what really is going on in the countries you’re talking about.
I lived through the tail end of the USSR’s “communism”, my parents lived IN that.
The reality of it is: USSR was a totalitarian dictatorship. There was nothing communist about it. Saying it was communist is just being extremely naive and ignorant. I mean, they themselves were always talking about how they’re “on the road to reaching communism”, they themselves didn’t think of the USSR as communist.
But even if we assume it was “not yet communist, but socialist” - it’s still bullshit, because, again, it was a totalitarian dictatorship.
And China? How can you see all the billionaires and CEOs of privately held companies and say “yeah, that’s socialism where the workers own the means of production”?
The large majority of those who lived in the USSR regret its fall. When socialism was ended, poverty skyrocketed and the economy collapsed. The USSR was socialist, I never once said they reached communism (no matter how much you love inventing my words). It was not a “totalitarian dictatorship,” no matter how much you keep asserting that it was. I know people that think Donald Trump was sent by God to save the world, anecdotes don’t mean anything.
The PRC has a socialist market economy. It isn’t devoid of private property, but public ownership is the principle aspect of the economy. It’s in the developing stage of socialism:
None of your points were based on anything I said, or anything other than your anecdotes. You aren’t being serious here. I’ve spoken to people with the opposite opinion from you who lived in the USSR for longer than you have, and that isn’t hard evidence either.
The delusion so heavy that I just don’t have the time to unwrap this. Sorry, mate.
I’ll just touch on two points:
The large majority of those who lived in the USSR regret its fall
These kinds of “analyses” are useless, since 90% of respondents don’t actually reply on-topic. They go “oh, yeah, I used to be carefree young and healthy back then, it used to be better”. ANY data like that coming from russia is 100% useless, because these people have been brainwash through the last 400 years into blind obedience. There was a famous interview with an unemployed guy, who would go “yeah, I used to have a job, I used to earn enough money to support my family, I’m unemployed for the past 10 years and life is getting harder and harder, Putin is the greatest president in russia’s history”.
Also, the data in the article is not about “regretting the fall of the USSR” but rather about “being better/worse off than during USSR”, and “wanting more socialism” (which is understandable, considering the cancer that capitalism is).
I don’t know how you read that text and went “people want USSR back”, I can only assume you being so filled with misinformation and propaganda, and just flat out ignorance, that you saw “socialism” and interpreted that as “USSR”, which is a double-whammy of wrong.
The death of Stalin in 1953 voided the simplistic totalitarian model of the police-state USSR as the epitome of the totalitarian state (…) the academic field of Kremlinology (analysing politburo policy politics) produced historical and policy analyses dominated by the totalitarian model of the USSR as a police state controlled by the absolute power of the supreme leader Stalin, who heads a monolithic, centralised hierarchy of government
After Stalin it changed from “dictatorship” to “party-ship”, where it was the Party that held full, unlimited control over the country.
As for all the rest - again, I just don’t have the time to unwrap this because your beliefs seem to stem from years, and years of misinformation. Might as well end this here.
You’re calling USSR or PRC “socialist”? WTF is this? A joke? I thought we’re having a serious conversation here.
Yes, both the USSR and PRC are typical examples of socialism. Public ownership is the principle aspect of both the former USSR’s economy and the PRC’s economy, same with Cuba, Vietnam, etc. Not sure what you’re getting at.
LOL, excellent jokes all around!
Both USSR and PRC are prime examples of bog-standard totalitarian dictatorships. I have no clue where you’re getting the “socialism” bits from. The fact that they said they are? Do you also believe that North Korea is a Democracy, because it’s in their name?
There’s no public ownership in either. In USSR it was “friends of friends” (the people who we now call the Oligarchs) and in PRC you have a “dictator-approved capitalism” with companies being privately owned.
I’ll admit that I don’t know enough about Cuba or Vietnam to discuss them.
Democracy in the former USSR and modern PRC is solidly proletarian in character. In the USSR, they practiced soviet democracy, which was a form of council based democracy that laddered all the way up to the Politburo. It was through this method, along with the economy being publicly owned and planned, that led to immense leaps in quality of life. Life expectancy doubled, literacy rates tripled, women took huge steps into government positions, education was free and high quality as well as healthcare, working hours shortened, and inequality fell dramatically. There were privledges being high up in government, but not in any way comparable to those under the Tsarist system or under capitalism today.
As for the PRC, public ownership is the principle aspect of its economy. Socialism is not the absence of private property in total, but one where the working class is in control and the large firms and key industries are dominated by public ownership. China’s socialist market economy is permeated with strong democracy as well, with higher ratings than western countries:
The DPRK is democratic, but not because of the name. It’s because they have approval based voting, worker councils, and the working class is in charge. They are currently run by a coalition of 3 parties, the socialist WPK, as well as a social democratic party and a religious party. Cuba is about halfway between the soviet model and chinese model, and Vietnam is closer to the Chinese model of economy. Both are socialist and both are democratic.
None of these countries are perfect wonderlands, but they are all socialist and all democratic. I don’t know what you think socialism looks like, it sounds like it’s just whatever unachievable utopia exists in your head and is free from the sins associated with actually existing in real life.
My God, you seem to actually believe all this stuff… It’s incredible to me!
Are you from the US?
The large majority of communists hold similar views, especially considering everything I said was factually true. Communists do exist, that shouldn’t be “incredible” to you. I am from the US Empire, yes, I do org work, and have spoken with people from former and existing socialist states.
Not really sure what you’re trying to do, mockery doesn’t invalidate any of the points I’ve made or the sources I bring up, it just gives me the opportunity for others to see that anti-communists don’t really have any points of their own to bring to the table.
You being from the US makes a lot of sense considering how absolutely clueless you are to what really is going on in the countries you’re talking about.
I lived through the tail end of the USSR’s “communism”, my parents lived IN that.
The reality of it is: USSR was a totalitarian dictatorship. There was nothing communist about it. Saying it was communist is just being extremely naive and ignorant. I mean, they themselves were always talking about how they’re “on the road to reaching communism”, they themselves didn’t think of the USSR as communist.
But even if we assume it was “not yet communist, but socialist” - it’s still bullshit, because, again, it was a totalitarian dictatorship.
And China? How can you see all the billionaires and CEOs of privately held companies and say “yeah, that’s socialism where the workers own the means of production”?
The large majority of those who lived in the USSR regret its fall. When socialism was ended, poverty skyrocketed and the economy collapsed. The USSR was socialist, I never once said they reached communism (no matter how much you love inventing my words). It was not a “totalitarian dictatorship,” no matter how much you keep asserting that it was. I know people that think Donald Trump was sent by God to save the world, anecdotes don’t mean anything.
The PRC has a socialist market economy. It isn’t devoid of private property, but public ownership is the principle aspect of the economy. It’s in the developing stage of socialism:
None of your points were based on anything I said, or anything other than your anecdotes. You aren’t being serious here. I’ve spoken to people with the opposite opinion from you who lived in the USSR for longer than you have, and that isn’t hard evidence either.
The delusion so heavy that I just don’t have the time to unwrap this. Sorry, mate.
I’ll just touch on two points:
These kinds of “analyses” are useless, since 90% of respondents don’t actually reply on-topic. They go “oh, yeah, I used to be carefree young and healthy back then, it used to be better”. ANY data like that coming from russia is 100% useless, because these people have been brainwash through the last 400 years into blind obedience. There was a famous interview with an unemployed guy, who would go “yeah, I used to have a job, I used to earn enough money to support my family, I’m unemployed for the past 10 years and life is getting harder and harder, Putin is the greatest president in russia’s history”.
Also, the data in the article is not about “regretting the fall of the USSR” but rather about “being better/worse off than during USSR”, and “wanting more socialism” (which is understandable, considering the cancer that capitalism is).
I don’t know how you read that text and went “people want USSR back”, I can only assume you being so filled with misinformation and propaganda, and just flat out ignorance, that you saw “socialism” and interpreted that as “USSR”, which is a double-whammy of wrong.
From the Wiki:
After Stalin it changed from “dictatorship” to “party-ship”, where it was the Party that held full, unlimited control over the country.
As for all the rest - again, I just don’t have the time to unwrap this because your beliefs seem to stem from years, and years of misinformation. Might as well end this here.